GoldenSound
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- Feb 28, 2021
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- 6
So I'm currently trying to set up an AL convolution for a 2.2 system but have been completely unable to get it working for the past two days.
If anyone is able to help me fix this I would GLADLY send you some cash or buy you a pizza or something. I'm completely unsure as to what I'm doing wrong and have been completely unable to get this working.
I've uploaded a video showing these problems here if it's easier than reading through text:
Issues:
1) When using the Mitch method/manual 4ch configuration with high/low pass filters, channel delays are set incorrectly and output files have channels in wrong order
2) When using a convolution in Roon, roon shows the convolution as "3-Paths" and playback sounds incredibly bass light
3) When outputting using the "mono WAV" format for HQPlayer, Audiolense creates 5 WAV files, not 4. And I cannot correctly correct/crossover the subwoofers.
Setup:
Measurement: Motu M2 -> SoundID Mic (Also have a MiniDSP UMIK-2 but that I struggled to get working at all so have swapped to the other mic)
Playback: PC -> Motu 8D -> Ch1/2 into Holo May -> Main Speakers
-> Ch3/4 into Holo Cyan 2 -> Subwoofers
1) 4 channel measurement
When trying to do a measurement with the guide written by Mitch, I set everything up as individual drivers, manually configure crossovers etc:
BUT, when I try to take a measurement, the order of output channels is incorrect, listing a subwoofer first.
I can manually input the correct output channel assignments, at which point the 'test connection' feature works fine and labels all outputs correctly, but the subwoofer remains as the first thing measured, and Audiolense completely gets the delays for the other speakers wrong, including saying my right main speaker is nearly 6ms behind my left main speaker. Even if I do continue and use this convolution, imaging is completely wonky due to the delay AL tries to impose on the right channel. And as far as I can work out there is no way to manually re-arrange the channel/measurement order.
If I swap to the stock "2.2" speaker config, everything is fine, output channels are listed correctly, and I can make the measurement with no issues at all. So it's definitely not a device issue but something to do with how Audiolense is calculating the delay and being unable to have one of the main speakers be overridden to be the reference for timing offset.
How can I configure a 4 channel setup that does not create this incorrect order/timing issue?
2) Roon not using convolution correctly / Bass correction only done in Mono
When I make a measurement (using the 2.2 speaker setup) the measurement itself looks mostly fine. You can see here the corrections it's making. Roughly 10dB attenuation which is mostly OK. Though there are two different subwoofer corrections, one pair going out up to 300hz, and one single (not pair) correction with a (FL, FR) suffix in the checkbox name going to the actual configured crossover frequency of 80hz. This is despite having "specified bass routing" enabled in the speaker config as is the default. (See end of this post for full config screenshots)
If I output this in "Roon" format, I see in the signal path that it is saying "3-paths" for convolution, not 4, and playback sounds extremely bass light, as though bass is almost entirely lopped off. The subwoofers do seem to be active, but the playback sounds completely incorrect.
If I use audiolense with a normal 2.0 config and don't change anything about the target/correction procedure I do not have this issue.
How do I measure/create a correction that corrects the subs independently? And provides an output filter that Roon will actually use for four channels not three?
3) Too many WAV files using the "mono WAV" format.
Given as Roon didn't seem to be working correctly, I thought I'd try outputting in "Mono WAV" format and using HQPlayer to do the convolution instead. But the first issue cropped up when with the 2.2ch speaker setup, it outputs five WAV files and a .cfg, rather than four WAV files:
All of these are confirmed to be mono WAVs. Files 0 and 1 seem to be for the main speakers. Files 2 and 3 seem to be for the subs, but extends all the way to 300hz, rather than the specified crossover frequency. File 4 is also for the subs and only goes to the actual crossover frequency. So it seems that these match up with the three subwoofer measurements/corrections shown in the previous issue? I'm not sure how to actually have it just correct each sub properly up to the intended crossover frequency?
As a result, I cannot properly correct my subwoofers. I can load the main speaker corrections into HQPlayer, but since I only have one mono file actually at the correct crossover frequency, the subs are not properly adjusted. Choosing files 2/3 for the subs results in them playing up to 300hz, massively overlapping with the speakers themselves.
For reference this is my speaker config for the 2.2ch setup (it's stock other than adjusting the XO width):
How do I measure/make a correction that provides the correct number of filters and will actually correct the subs properly?
If anyone is able to help me fix this I would GLADLY send you some cash or buy you a pizza or something. I'm completely unsure as to what I'm doing wrong and have been completely unable to get this working.
I've uploaded a video showing these problems here if it's easier than reading through text:
Issues:
1) When using the Mitch method/manual 4ch configuration with high/low pass filters, channel delays are set incorrectly and output files have channels in wrong order
2) When using a convolution in Roon, roon shows the convolution as "3-Paths" and playback sounds incredibly bass light
3) When outputting using the "mono WAV" format for HQPlayer, Audiolense creates 5 WAV files, not 4. And I cannot correctly correct/crossover the subwoofers.
Setup:
Measurement: Motu M2 -> SoundID Mic (Also have a MiniDSP UMIK-2 but that I struggled to get working at all so have swapped to the other mic)
Playback: PC -> Motu 8D -> Ch1/2 into Holo May -> Main Speakers
-> Ch3/4 into Holo Cyan 2 -> Subwoofers
1) 4 channel measurement
When trying to do a measurement with the guide written by Mitch, I set everything up as individual drivers, manually configure crossovers etc:
BUT, when I try to take a measurement, the order of output channels is incorrect, listing a subwoofer first.
I can manually input the correct output channel assignments, at which point the 'test connection' feature works fine and labels all outputs correctly, but the subwoofer remains as the first thing measured, and Audiolense completely gets the delays for the other speakers wrong, including saying my right main speaker is nearly 6ms behind my left main speaker. Even if I do continue and use this convolution, imaging is completely wonky due to the delay AL tries to impose on the right channel. And as far as I can work out there is no way to manually re-arrange the channel/measurement order.
If I swap to the stock "2.2" speaker config, everything is fine, output channels are listed correctly, and I can make the measurement with no issues at all. So it's definitely not a device issue but something to do with how Audiolense is calculating the delay and being unable to have one of the main speakers be overridden to be the reference for timing offset.
How can I configure a 4 channel setup that does not create this incorrect order/timing issue?
2) Roon not using convolution correctly / Bass correction only done in Mono
When I make a measurement (using the 2.2 speaker setup) the measurement itself looks mostly fine. You can see here the corrections it's making. Roughly 10dB attenuation which is mostly OK. Though there are two different subwoofer corrections, one pair going out up to 300hz, and one single (not pair) correction with a (FL, FR) suffix in the checkbox name going to the actual configured crossover frequency of 80hz. This is despite having "specified bass routing" enabled in the speaker config as is the default. (See end of this post for full config screenshots)
If I output this in "Roon" format, I see in the signal path that it is saying "3-paths" for convolution, not 4, and playback sounds extremely bass light, as though bass is almost entirely lopped off. The subwoofers do seem to be active, but the playback sounds completely incorrect.
If I use audiolense with a normal 2.0 config and don't change anything about the target/correction procedure I do not have this issue.
How do I measure/create a correction that corrects the subs independently? And provides an output filter that Roon will actually use for four channels not three?
3) Too many WAV files using the "mono WAV" format.
Given as Roon didn't seem to be working correctly, I thought I'd try outputting in "Mono WAV" format and using HQPlayer to do the convolution instead. But the first issue cropped up when with the 2.2ch speaker setup, it outputs five WAV files and a .cfg, rather than four WAV files:
All of these are confirmed to be mono WAVs. Files 0 and 1 seem to be for the main speakers. Files 2 and 3 seem to be for the subs, but extends all the way to 300hz, rather than the specified crossover frequency. File 4 is also for the subs and only goes to the actual crossover frequency. So it seems that these match up with the three subwoofer measurements/corrections shown in the previous issue? I'm not sure how to actually have it just correct each sub properly up to the intended crossover frequency?
As a result, I cannot properly correct my subwoofers. I can load the main speaker corrections into HQPlayer, but since I only have one mono file actually at the correct crossover frequency, the subs are not properly adjusted. Choosing files 2/3 for the subs results in them playing up to 300hz, massively overlapping with the speakers themselves.
For reference this is my speaker config for the 2.2ch setup (it's stock other than adjusting the XO width):
How do I measure/make a correction that provides the correct number of filters and will actually correct the subs properly?
