Basic Measuring Problems Can't Measure With ASIO

[Trdat]

My first question is when choosing seperate play and recording streams does that mean that both have to be different recording formats such as ASIO and Wasapi or both can be ASIO but from different sources?

It seems I can't measure with ASIO with my focusrite but it works with REW.

The only way it seems to work with input chosen as focusrite ASIO is that the output has to be USBstreamer not minidsp ASIO hence the first question. I don't know the difference between USBstreamer and minidspASIO there both essentially the same representation of the minidsp UDIO-8 but I am guessing with the minidspASIO being ASIO and USBstreamer using Wasapi or Direct sound.

The problem chosing USBstreamer is that the check speaker connection routing is totally off, and sometimes it even comes out of TV. Any ideas?

The only other thing I can think of is that in the control panel>sound>recording is the focusrite is Analauge 1+2 which is not the ASIO but the ASIO driver is installed.


Laslty, I wonder if I can use the minidsp UDIO-8 inputs to connect the focusrite that way I can use the same play and recording streams of the minidspASIO. Is that possible does anyone know how to use the inputs of the UDIO-8?

 

[Ofer]

Can you please post the input/output signal chain? it isn't exactly clear from the question.

 

[Trdat]

Can you please post the input/output signal chain? it isn't exactly clear from the question.

Output is through the minidsp UDIO-8 a digital to digital 8 channel converter which has to be channel routed and the input is the focusrite solo.

Is below what you want me to post?

 

[Trdat]

Currently, I am trying the output via Jriver Direct sound setting the Jriver Audio device to USBstreamer(minidsp) Direct sound turning off the routing inside Jriver's DSP and leaving the output format as 2 channel in a 7.1 container. The routing in speaker check connections is just going to output 1 and 2 for all of them. I tried this with many iterations to no avail.

If I can get the output to work with the channel routing maybe the focusrite ASIO might work if the output is not ASIO, I say this as it is supported and when I run measurement it actually works without an error.

 

[Ofer]

OK. so it is:
JRiver (computer) 2.0/7.1 container > UDIO-8>amps>speakers
and the focusrite is only for measurements?

 

[Trdat]

OK. so it is:
JRiver (computer) 2.0/7.1 container > UDIO-8>amps>speakers
and the focusrite is only for measurements?

Yes, the latest iteration is the above. The focusrite is only for the measureement input. Do I uncheck the parametric EQ which has also the channel routing or does that stay on? Any other boxes I need to check or uncheck or change...?

When choosing the minidspASIO directly for the output the channel routing is perfect. But I can't choose that because when choosing different play and recording streams you can't have ASIO for both, well that is my understanding. Hence why I get an error message when choosing minidspASIO and focusrite ASIO when I run measurement.

With the Jriver and focusriteASIO the measureemnt goes through but ofcourse with the wrong channel routing.

 

[Trdat]

So I have been at it for 3 hours and the only thing I can think of if someone would confirm, that seperate play and recording streams doesn't allow both input and output to be ASIO?

If this is the case I am left with using a non ASIO driver for the focusrite, as I can only use ASIO for the output which is going to give me out of whack driver delays.

If I can use ASIO for both input and output then I have to see what it could be.

Anyway, if someone could confirm this I can work towards one direction.

 

[Ofer]

This needs to be confirmed by @juicehifi. It could be that the software can't work with two asio drivers. Can you plug a umik to the miniDSP and have the input and output from the same device?

 

[Trdat]

This needs to be confirmed by @juicehifi. It could be that the software can't work with two asio drivers. Can you plug a umik to the miniDSP and have the input and output from the same device?

Yes, once I get that confirmed I can move in the right direction.

I still don't know why when a non ASIO driver for the minidsp Udio-8 is chosen the routing is out of whack but perhaps you can't use the UDIO-8 without ASIO.

That is what I am trying to get my head around, the UDIO-8 has 8 channels of input but I have absolutely no idea how to use the inputs as they are spdif BNC connectors. Obviously, it is for recording and adding to an interface but is it possible to connect it to the focusrite? I don't have a umik and even then, input and outputs on the UDIO-8 is spdif BNC connector so can't physically connect the microphone to it, unless there is a way that I don't not know of.

I mean, how would a spdif BNC connector connect to something like interface or microphone? This way I could use both ASIO unchecking the seperate play and record.

 

[Ofer]

Well the Solo is very basic. A lot of audio interfaces have adat/spdif outs that can connect to these inputs. The idea, I suppose, is to bump the number of outputs for an audio interface without spending all the $$ for a multichannel interface. If you had something like this:
JRiver (computer)>Audio interface >spdif>UDIO-8 >amps>speakers. Then it might have saved you all this trouble.

 

[Trdat]

Well the Solo is very basic. A lot of audio interfaces have adat/spdif outs that can connect to these inputs. The idea, I suppose, is to bump the number of outputs for an audio interface without spending all the $$ for a multichannel interface. If you had something like this:
JRiver (computer)>Audio interface >spdif>UDIO-8 >amps>speakers. Then it might have saved you all this trouble.

Had no idea that you can get SPDIF out from a focusrite, but perhaps if knew earlier I would researhed and have purcahsed a higher model. There very expensive, is there a work around maybe a converter or something? or any other option with SPDIF out...?

I'll take a look at the second hand market.

 

[Ofer]

Focusrite are actually very affordable for audio interfaces, try RME and such... A lot of the users here are very happy with Motu products. The ultralight mk5 and similar models are solid multichannel interfaces. Maybe the UDIO-8 and the Solo will add up to one of those.

 

[Trdat]

Focusrite are actually very affordable for audio interfaces, try RME and such... A lot of the users here are very happy with Motu products. The ultralight mk5 and similar models are solid multichannel interfaces. Maybe the UDIO-8 and the Solo will add up to one of those.

Ive already got the UDIO-8 and the solo so kind of waste to get another focusrtie with a SPDIF out, but if it will fix my problems then it might have to be the only way.

Can you just tell me that SPDIF out from a focusrite can connect to the input of the UDIO-8 ? If so, it is an option if I find a cheap 2nd generation version. I only ask is to double check that is how it works before I go buying it, thats all. I am presuming that it will work.

It seems like there is no other option unless, AL can use both ASIO on input and output with different sources with seperate play and record, then I can keep trying.

 

[Ofer]

It seems that way but I can't be 100% sure from reading the manual. I think it would be wise to check on the MiniDSP forums. A motu ultralight mk5 can be found for ~500$, what I was sugesting is selling both your interfaces to cover the cost. But before you get another focusrite you should validate this input thing. Maybe even open a ticket at the miniDSP support.

 

[juicehifi]

Output is through the minidsp UDIO-8 a digital to digital 8 channel converter which has to be channel routed and the input is the focusrite solo.

Is below what you want me to post?

Asio only supports one single device at a time. So whenever you use two devices you can only use Asio on one of them.

 

[Trdat]

Asio only supports one single device at a time. So whenever you use two devices you can only use Asio on one of them.

Great, thanks thats what I needed to confirm.

Can you also give me a rough idea if the out of whack delays are probably because I am not measuring with ASIO? Or do you think it is possible to get delays within a reasonable amount upon measurement with a non ASIO driver for the input?

Also, is the important part of using ASIO the input right?

 

[juicehifi]

There were more problems with non-asio drivers than asio-drivers in the past. Furthermore, devices that came with asio drivers generally had better drivers for the other audio apis as well. But nowadays I am not sure if the difference has been preserved. Many devices are using third party drivers and I know for sure that thay can have bugs and aren't always properly adapted and configured for the device. I suspect these shortcomings has become widespread. USB devices are still more prone to having problems than PCI(e) cards and embedded sound cards, which is a pity since USB is available on all PCs.

If you haven't tried Asio4All you should try it. It is very stable, and besides, it communicates with the sound cards through an audi api that has been around forever, which may explain why it often works well where other apis fail.

It doesn't matter which apis you use as long as they work reliably (and you get consistent timing differences between measurements).

 

[Trdat]

There were more problems with non-asio drivers than asio-drivers in the past. Furthermore, devices that came with asio drivers generally had better drivers for the other audio apis as well. But nowadays I am not sure if the difference has been preserved. Many devices are using third party drivers and I know for sure that thay can have bugs and aren't always properly adapted and configured for the device. I suspect these shortcomings has become widespread. USB devices are still more prone to having problems than PCI(e) cards and embedded sound cards, which is a pity since USB is available on all PCs.

If you haven't tried Asio4All you should try it. It is very stable, and besides, it communicates with the sound cards through an audi api that has been around forever, which may explain why it often works well where other apis fail.

It doesn't matter which apis you use as long as they work reliably (and you get consistent timing differences between measurements).

So uncheck seperate play and recording streams.

Check focusrite and USBstreamer in ASIO4All and choose ASIO4All for both input and output. I just tried it.

Everything is okay except that the speaker connections are out of whack. Have no idea why speaker connections would be out of whack when USB streamer is chosen and not when minidspASIO is chosen. I can try and play around with it more but I am not hopefull. This time the speaker test sound is coming out of the midbass, not even channel 1 and 2 which is what usually works without routing.