Speaker positioning help

[Bone9]

Hi, guys. I'm in the process of moving my living room around and will have completely different speaker positions than before. This is my current plan but i'm struggling on where to mount my other 2 speakers. I used to have them angled down towards the listing area but about 500mm in front mounted on the walls just below the celling.

I have a Denon avr-x2400h. I was going to have the 2 speakers not show in the plan as back speakers in a 7.1 setup but as my sofa is on the back wall I believe this is not recommended.

What do you suggest? Side mounted as top middle?

These are the speakers on custom wall mounts.

Cheers for any input guys.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm a tad confused. The above image shows where you will position a 5.1 system... but you have two extra speakers (not shown in the image) and you're trying to figure out where to put them? Correct?

 

[Bone9]

Sorry yes, also opinions on the above locations. I asked on another forum about the 2 speakers not positioned and everyone just destroyed my planned layout for the FL and FR speakers.

Originally I planned this layout with the red marked as top middle speakers.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I’d agree that with your first layout (picture in 2nd post), the front L/R was problematic, but the layout in your first post looks good. The only thing I’d suggest is moving the SR speaker further away, if at all possible. I really don’t like having back speakers that close to the MLP – it’s difficult to balance the sound so that the close one isn’t easily localized.

I don’t think the extra speakers (in the red locations) are going to be of any benefit. For a 7.1 system you really need to get speakers behind the MLP. For your room, I’d stick with a 5.1 arrangement.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[Bone9]

I’d agree that with your first layout (picture in 2nd post), the front L/R was problematic, but the layout in your first post looks good. The only thing I’d suggest is moving the SR speaker further away, if at all possible. I really don’t like having back speakers that close to the MLP – it’s difficult to balance the sound so that the close one isn’t easily localized.

I don’t think the extra speakers (in the red locations) are going to be of any benefit. For a 7.1 system you really need to get speakers behind the MLP. For your room, I’d stick with a 5.1 arrangement.

Regards,
Wayne

Thanks. Unfortunately the RS can't be moved any further away. I could point it forward but no further away.

I was thinking more of a 5.2.2 atmos setup as top middle?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Sorry yes, also opinions on the above locations. I asked on another forum about the 2 speakers not positioned and everyone just destroyed my planned layout for the FL and FR speakers.

Originally I planned this layout with the red marked as top middle speakers.

View attachment 82180

Ha... yeah, that's the internet for you. Gotta love how inflexible and idealistic people are willing to be.

I'm going to agree with Wayne. The first image is better than the second. My main reason is that the spread of your front channels is more symmetrical and centered with your TV.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to cut into your walls or ceiling to run wiring?

 

[Bone9]

Ha... yeah, that's the internet for you. Gotta love how inflexible and idealistic people are willing to be.

I'm going to agree with Wayne. The first image is better than the second. My main reason is that the spread of your front channels is more symmetrical and centered with your TV.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to cut into your walls or ceiling to run wiring?

Some people are ridiculous tbh.

Unfortunately this is a rented property so I can't cut into the walls or ceiling. I used d line trunking to hide the cables before.

 

[Bone9]

This is the distance from the mlp...

FL = 290cm
C = 267cm
FR = 320cm
RS = 178cm
LS = 215cm

 

[Todd Anderson]

Is there a way to run some of that trunking on the ceiling?

I'm just thinking that you'll be happiest having those side surround speakers symmetrically mounted on the ceiling, but slightly forward and to the sides of the MLP

 

[Bone9]

The best I can do for the top middle speakers is to mount them at the top of the walls. Top fronts is an option.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Ok. So you can have them as top fronts. That means your LCRs are ear level?

 

[Bone9]

Yes my LCR are ear level and the LS & RS higher than ear level. Will measure the surround height after work.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I think your best bet for the most cohesive sounding system, is to make those speakers top fronts, creating a 3.2.2 system. And, if I were you, I'd try my best to make that entire front soundstage as symmetrically positioned around your TV as possible (with the TV as the center point, of course ;-).

I get your interest in having side or rear surrounds. But, I think the right move is admit the space won't accommodate that and work with what it gives you.

Truth is, you can have a great sounding, enveloping experience by creating that front array of speakers and using the x2400h's calibration tools to set it in motion.

 

[Bone9]

My surrounds are 140cm from the floor and my ears are 86cm from the floor so there 54cm higher than my ears. This is similar to my old layout in this room which sounded great. I'm happy to keep these.

I'll look into top fronts. Thanks.

 

[Mark W]

There are various systems for figuring out where to place speakers. Most of the require moving the speakers around to find the best spots (which is obviously more complicated when they are to be ceiling or wall mounted). It also depends on what the speaker positioning goal is. Is it to get the best sound a key listening spot, or maybe its to get the best overall sound from any point in the room? Could be something else too.

One possibly interesting approach can be seen at: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46634

 

[Sonnie Parker]

There are various systems for figuring out where to place speakers. Most of the require moving the speakers around to find the best spots (which is obviously more complicated when they are to be ceiling or wall mounted). It also depends on what the speaker positioning goal is. Is it to get the best sound a key listening spot, or maybe its to get the best overall sound from any point in the room? Could be something else too.

One possibly interesting approach can be seen at: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46634

He mainly needs help with the surround speakers, and I don't think Bone9 has the option to experiment as the linked thread suggests. The linked thread also suggests first positioning for the best bass pressure. This could ultimately be a matter of opinion and preference. I'd start with the Cardas Room Setup Guide, which is an excellent starting point if you have the freedom to move your speakers out into the room. Dan, in the linked thread, states: If you key on the imaging instead of the pressure, you'll go mad! ... Never heard of this, and I've successfully set up countless speakers in various rooms by focusing purely on soundstage and imaging, and I don't think I've gone mad (then again, let me think about that one). Yes... bass and mid-bass affect imaging, but placement for imaging will generally tell you if you got it right without solely focusing on the bass pressure. The Cardas method is more time-tested, widely referenced, and straightforward for many rooms. Fine-tune from there if you have placement freedom, which is the first prerequisite.

 

[JStewart]

@Bone9 , @Todd Anderson is very experienced so he’s likely made right call for placing the 2 “height” speakers, but to steal one of his ideas, if you want to satisfy a curiosity, maybe you could get some 2x4”s to attach the speakers to and then temporarily place them where you’d like to try and see.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Years ago when I wrote up a review SVS’s new Elevation speakers and a Marantz unit, I used 2x4s to test different high wall speaker placements. It works!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Years ago when I wrote up a review SVS’s new Elevation speakers and a Marantz unit, I used 2x4s to test different high wall speaker placements. It works!

Sounds like a Jeff Foxworthy moment.

Please tell me you didn't use duct tape to strap the speakers to the 2x4s.

 

[Todd Anderson]

It definitely required more than just one 2x4!!!

And a few rolls of duct tape. Tho, I used the black stuff. Don’t want to introduce any silver reflective surfaces into the room!