Surround suggestions

[Eric SVL]

I'd like to finally get some surrounds. I currently have a 2.2 system (phantom center and Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ for the subs) that sounds pretty good. Problem is, while I like the way my Reaction Audio CX-10s sound up front, it has been difficult finding matching surrounds.

There are always DIY concentrics, but they would be large. I would probably just do 4.2.

The other idea is to just change whole setup, but that's a bit drastic. I did really like the planar magnetic tweeters in the Chane A3rx-c I auditioned, but disliked the mids. I've always been intrigued by ribbons but haven't heard any yet.

But the CX-10s project a huge sound that just makes things sound real, not like sound is coming from small boxes. So I'm not unhappy with them, but I am always open to other sounds.

What do you guys think? Try to find surrounds that will work, or change the system? My room is 203"x127" with an 84" ceiling. Carpeted, with no wall treatments, yet.

 

[chrapladm]

I think if you love the speakers you have just try and find something that matches. And if your budget allows you can always have identical speakers for all channels. I think that would be the best sound but thats just my opinion and what I have grown to like. And we cant always fit identical speakers in all locations.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Matching surround speakers to your front two (or three) is far less crucial than a matching front soundstage. I agree with chrapladm, if you truly love the way your 2.2 system sounds, then it's time to get creative with your surrounds.

I'm assuming that buying two more CX-10s and getting creative with placement is out of the question?

I'm not familiar with the signature sound the Reactions, but I'd start with contacting them and asking if they have any suggestions for brands/models that might approximate their sound.

 

[Eric SVL]

Matching surround speakers to your front two (or three) is far less crucial than a matching front soundstage. I agree with chrapladm, if you truly love the way your 2.2 system sounds, then it's time to get creative with your surrounds.

I'm assuming that buying two more CX-10s and getting creative with placement is out of the question?

I'm not familiar with the signature sound the Reactions, but I'd start with contacting them and asking if they have any suggestions for brands/models that might approximate their sound.

Reaction Audio is no more, so the only option would be DIY concentrics and hope they come close. Would be a fun project, but we're talking about large speakers here and I don't think I'll be able to do something that big for surrounds. It's possible the 8" driver might work but I'm not sure.

If you don't think matching is crucial, I could get something reasonably close with a 5-6" driver. I just hope that during pans everything sounds tonally similar. And I'm not sure what speaker that would be. I cross to my subs at 80-100hz range (tbd in the new room).

 

[Eric SVL]

Some ideas:

Chane have great tweeters but main drivers are not tonally similar to mine (tested)
EMP/RBH Impressions are in the ballpark (tested) - the bookshelves could work depending on my crossover: EDIT: just discontinued http://rbhsound.com/r5bi.php

Any other ideas? They need to work well up against a wall and have extension down to at least 60hz. I have placement for side and rear surrounds. How big of a benefit is 6.2 over 4.2? No serious budget at this point, best to survey the field first.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I’ve been kicking around the net and came to that conclusion.

HSU makes coaxials (I reviewed them and thought they were fantastic)...

Honestly, tho, I think you’re much better off trying to match tonality. Ultimately, tho, The way movies are mixed, I don’t think you’ll notice a huge difference with mos-matched surrounds. Possibly for multi-channel music... but not so much for movies.

How would describe the RA sound?

 

[Eric SVL]

The RA's have lots of power and detail in the midrange and the compression tweeter can put out serious SPL if asked to. Lots of impact. These are rock music and movie speakers. They are tonally neutral. They recreate the realism of bass guitar really well. The soundstage is very large and matches my 64" plasma well - no center, no problem. Phantom is even better in this system, I'd argue.

Here's the back of the room mounting options. I'm planning to change to a three-seat configuration.

 

[Eric SVL]

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html

You must be speaking of these. They do look good. And come to think of it, it would be best to stick to high-sensitivity speakers since that is what I have up front. I'll have to do some measuring and see if it's possible to fit them. At 12" deep that may be difficult.

EDIT: Measured, they should fit as side surrounds, but they are too big for the rear wall with its doors. I'm reading your review now. Have you seen them used as on-wall surrounds? I'm not sure about that since the ports are on the back.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hmmm... I wouldn’t call the HSU’s neutral. If anything, trending toward bright (which makes for a very detailed speaker).

What about one of GoldenEar’s offerings? They definitely have neutral sound.

 

[Eric SVL]

Hmmm... I wouldn’t call the HSU’s neutral. If anything, trending toward bright (which makes for a very detailed speaker).

What about one of GoldenEar’s offerings? They definitely have neutral sound.

Well I have Audyssey so brightness is something that could/would be rolled off a bit. Also I define detail differently, more like definition and separation throughout the entire frequency spectrum. I don't mind a little sparkle up top though, it helps things not sound congested.

The GoldenEar Aons look interesting. No rear ports: check. But can they keep up with my coaxial fronts? They would be pretty close to my listening position as you can see from the above photo, so maybe they would do fine. However a review mentions that while they do great with certain genres, they fall apart during heavier music such as rock.

After viewing those, the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 came up. There's a lot of praise going around for these. Any thoughts? Would a rear port against the wall be a problem (they would be angled down toward the seats)? Would it be a waste of a good speaker to put these as surrounds?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Well I have Audyssey so brightness is something that could/would be rolled off a bit. Also I define detail differently, more like definition and separation throughout the entire frequency spectrum. I don't mind a little sparkle up top though, it helps things not sound congested.

The GoldenEar Aons look interesting. No rear ports: check. But can they keep up with my coaxial fronts? They would be pretty close to my listening position as you can see from the above photo, so maybe they would do fine. However a review mentions that while they do great with certain genres, they fall apart during heavier music such as rock.

After viewing those, the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 came up. There's a lot of praise going around for these. Any thoughts? Would a rear port against the wall be a problem? Would it be a waste of a good speaker to put these as surrounds?

My own opinion is that these speakers are using very different drivers from what you are looking at. I actually think that being a concentric coaxial design is less important than matching the overall design approach. These used Radian coaxial speakers and if you want to match that, I suggest looking at high efficiency speakers.

JTR and Seatonsound both make coaxial surrounds that may be a good match to these. You could also buy the same radian driver and make your own, the crossover would be tricky, but if you don't mind taking a picture of the crossover for your speaker, I can probably help you recreate it. Another option might be the DIY Sound Group speakers. The Volt line uses a lesser coaxial speaker, but its still of high quality and the crossover is well done. The new version 2 uses a much better custom Celestion compression driver and improved coaxial. Who knows, it might give the Radian a run for its money.

 

[Eric SVL]

My own opinion is that these speakers are using very different drivers from what you are looking at. I actually think that being a concentric coaxial design is less important than matching the overall design approach. These used Radian coaxial speakers and if you want to match that, I suggest looking at high efficiency speakers.

JTR and Seatonsound both make coaxial surrounds that may be a good match to these. You could also buy the same radian driver and make your own, the crossover would be tricky, but if you don't mind taking a picture of the crossover for your speaker, I can probably help you recreate it. Another option might be the DIY Sound Group speakers. The Volt line uses a lesser coaxial speaker, but its still of high quality and the crossover is well done. The new version 2 uses a much better custom Celestion compression driver and improved coaxial. Who knows, it might give the Radian a run for its money.

I tend to agree that I should stick with high efficiency speakers especially as they will all run off the same AVR (Denon X4000).

I have looked at the Volts in the past, but not JTR or Seaton. I will take a look at those and report back what I think might work in this room (expecting sticker shock though).

Keeping the HSU's on my list for now.

Thanks.

 

[Eric SVL]

Seaton doesn't have any speakers listed. JTR has the Slanted 8HT which look nice, but are unfortunately too expensive for me.

 

[Tony V.]

What about getting some Monolith series 5 speakers from Monoprice
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16221

 

[Eric SVL]

What about getting some Monolith series 5 speakers from Monoprice
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16221

For the price those can't be bad.

Just read Todd's review - nope, they're not.

However, I would be willing to pay a little more for the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Seaton doesn't have any speakers listed. JTR has the Slanted 8HT which look nice but are unfortunately too expensive for me.

Seaton does have speakers, not sure why his site doesn't list them. I would suggest emailing him. He has a brand new in-wall called the Ember. It uses a really good quality 6.5" Faital Pro coaxial. He uses a B&C coaxial on his Catalyst I believe (Don't quote me on that). Of course, more important than the drivers he uses is the crossovers and I can personally attest to the parts quality and sophisticated design. Mark does what it takes to get good sound.
The JTR's Slant 8's are great, but I'll admit, if his speakers are too expensive, so will Mark's.
The volts have been redesigned, so just because you looked at them previously (or even heard them previously) take another look. The new one is quite a bit better than the old one. I wouldn't put them on par with the JTR or Seaton's, but still really good. You have to remember when I say not as good, that's because I think the JTR and Seaton's are really good. I'm not sure you will find an equal or better speaker for the same price.

 

[Eric SVL]

Seaton does have speakers, not sure why his site doesn't list them. I would suggest emailing him. He has a brand new in-wall called the Ember. It uses a really good quality 6.5" Faital Pro coaxial. He uses a B&C coaxial on his Catalyst I believe (Don't quote me on that). Of course, more important than the drivers he uses is the crossovers and I can personally attest to the parts quality and sophisticated design. Mark does what it takes to get good sound.
The JTR's Slant 8's are great, but I'll admit, if his speakers are too expensive, so will Mark's.
The volts have been redesigned, so just because you looked at them previously (or even heard them previously) take another look. The new one is quite a bit better than the old one. I wouldn't put them on par with the JTR or Seaton's, but still really good. You have to remember when I say not as good, that's because I think the JTR and Seaton's are really good. I'm not sure you will find an equal or better speaker for the same price.

Thanks for the comments.

Have you heard the HSU CCB-8, or can you describe how they stack up? At $700/pair, they seem like a good buy

I worry that the tweeter could be somewhat beam-y if you were listening to them straight on.

Might be overkill for this room though. I'm starting to think a bit smaller - and I think I'm starting to build an audition list for later in the year.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Thanks for the comments.

Have you heard the HSU CCB-8, or can you describe how they stack up? At $700/pair, they seem like a good buy

I worry that the tweeter could be somewhat beam-y if you were listening to them straight on.

Might be overkill for this room though. I'm starting to think a bit smaller - and I think I'm starting to build an audition list for later in the year.

I heard them for the first time at AXPONA. Under show conditions i thought they sounded good. They are still technically different. They are a normal style of driver with higher mass and lower fs. The tweeter is a direct radiator dome, not a cd. I think it will sound different still. However for surround duties they will likely be fine. You might find they sound better in some ways. Dr Hsu is an excellent designer and speaker builder and did a good job. They likely won’t play as loud but it’s probably not a major concern.

 

[Mark Seaton]

Seaton does have speakers, not sure why his site doesn't list them. I would suggest emailing him. He has a brand new in-wall called the Ember. It uses a really good quality 6.5" Faital Pro coaxial. He uses a B&C coaxial on his Catalyst I believe (Don't quote me on that). Of course, more important than the drivers he uses is the crossovers and I can personally attest to the parts quality and sophisticated design. Mark does what it takes to get good sound.
The JTR's Slant 8's are great, but I'll admit, if his speakers are too expensive, so will Mark's.
The volts have been redesigned, so just because you looked at them previously (or even heard them previously) take another look. The new one is quite a bit better than the old one. I wouldn't put them on par with the JTR or Seaton's, but still really good. You have to remember when I say not as good, that's because I think the JTR and Seaton's are really good. I'm not sure you will find an equal or better speaker for the same price.

I just caught this thread today. Thank you for the mention Matt. The in-wall Ember series you heard at AXPONA will be on the website this coming week, along with our other speaker models. At long last we have all of the subwoofer listed with online ordering. The speakers go up next.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I just caught this thread today. Thank you for the mention Matt. The in-wall Ember series you heard at AXPONA will be on the website this coming week, along with our other speaker models. At long last we have all of the subwoofer listed with online ordering. The speakers go up next.

Great to hear. Those really are special in-walls. A true problem solver.