SVS Ultra VS Klipsch RF-7 & RC-64

[Supee]

I have found a ton of amazing information on your site, and I get lost in the forums getting sucked down the intriguing rabbit hole one after another!

That being said, your site convinced me to pick up the Yamaha RX-A3070 and am super happy with the unit. I have 7 in ceiling SpeakerCraft Aim 8 four speakers that sound great for background music and TV, but leave a lot to desire in regards to movie dialogue as well as critical music listening. I would like to replace my front in-ceiling speakers for a good LRC set. I have an opportunity to purchase some Klipsch at dealer pricing and am looking at the RF-7 and RC-64, but I have been leaning toward the SVS Ultra's based upon a lot of the online feedback. I am able to pick up the Klipsch set for ~$1,800. This is obviously about $900 less than the SVS set would cost.

I only currently have a single subwoofer that is a Jamo SUB550, which is a mediocre unit that doesn't have the precision that I would prefer, but a sub is not currently in the budget. I know that the SVS towers should be able to make up for the lackluster sub currently in the system, but eventually, a new sub will get introduced after a new 4K display.

Size of my room is approximately 20x24, with open floor plan connected to the kitchen off to the side.

I have my display mounted on the wall without any equipment in the living room except for the speakers, sub, and touch panel. Are there any issues with mounting a center channel like the Ultra Center or the RC-64 on the wall? I assume that resting the speaker on heavy duty arms or a shelf?

I would also like to continue utilizing my SpeakerCraft Aim 8 four speakers in the ceiling for my surrounds and future Atmos setup.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Supee - as I had mentioned privately, thanks for joining AV NIRVANA. Glad you found some good info here and congrats on buying the RX-A3070. It’s a great piece of gear!

Great choice on going with freestanding speakers for LCR. You’re going to love the improvement in sound.

Have you had a chance to demo the Klipsch RF-7s? If so, and you liked them, I’m tempted to suggest going with those. The cost savings is huge. And that’s money you can put toward a sub.

Definitely read a review of the Klipsch center channel and make sure it has good off-axis performance (unless that doesn’t apply to your situation). Of course, if you have the space for three towers across the front, go that route! ;-)

I’d imagine the biggest difference in sound between the Klipsch and SVS speakers will be in terms of brightness, with the Klipsch likely being slightly brighter sounding. And, yes, when run in open port mode, the Ultra towers have nice bass output. Not to the degree and impact of a properly sized sub, but very good. I run the Ultras in my system - excellent speakers from an excellent company (definitely easy to recommend).

You can certainly get creative with mounting your center channel. The further away from the wall, the better. And definitely don’t jam a rear firing (ie, rear ported) center channel up against a wall. I ran a Polk center on wall mounted rack bars for quite a few years, it worked pretty well!

As for the sub, you have a big open space. That means you need something that can put out a lot of energy. I’m thinking a large ported sub. Check out offerings from HSU, SVS, Power Sound Audio, and Monoprice Monolith. You can also chat with Tom V at Power Sound Audio... just let him know that I suggested you give him a shout. He’s super friendly and will give you an idea of which Power Sound Audio sub he’d suggest (you can then compare to their competition and make a choice for a target).

Im curious to read the thoughts of other members!

 

[Supee]

I hadn't ever thought about utilizing a tower as a center channel. That is an interesting concept! in regards to the "off-axis" performance, I would imagine that you are referring to the dispersion pattern of the speaker? I assumed that with the wide layout of the speakers across the width of the speaker, that it would have a wider dispersion, and in turn accommodate a wider listening audience for dialogue?

I have not had an opportunity to listen to the RF-7's yet, but at this point, I think that anything in a cabinet is going to be leaps and bounds above what I currently have. My concern is their "musicality" and if they are going to be too "bright"? I know that there are tons of DSP and available listening modes on the RX-A3070, but easy setup to get them to sound good is also extremely appealing. This is my first step into the hi-fidelity space, and am hoping I make a good choice out of the gate. I have a friend that puts out his own lossless radio show, utilizing all vinyl and am looking for some "warmth" when listening. I have also deeply considered getting into records myself, but between bbq, whiskey, and AV I already have a lot of expensive hobbies!

I am certainly looking forward to others thoughts on the subject, and am super excited to have found the group!

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I hadn't ever thought about utilizing a tower as a center channel. That is an interesting concept! in regards to the "off-axis" performance, I would imagine that you are referring to the dispersion pattern of the speaker? I assumed that with the wide layout of the speakers across the width of the speaker, that it would have a wider dispersion, and in turn accommodate a wider listening audience for dialogue?

I have not had an opportunity to listen to the RF-7's yet, but at this point, I think that anything in a cabinet is going to be leaps and bounds above what I currently have. My concern is their "musicality" and if they are going to be too "bright"? I know that there are tons of DSP and available listening modes on the RX-A3070, but easy setup to get them to sound good is also extremely appealing. This is my first step into the hi-fidelity space, and am hoping I make a good choice out of the gate. I have a friend that puts out his own lossless radio show, utilizing all vinyl and am looking for some "warmth" when listening. I have also deeply considered getting into records myself, but between bbq, whiskey, and AV I already have a lot of expensive hobbies!

I am certainly looking forward to others thoughts on the subject, and am super excited to have found the group!

Certainly listening to the speakers before you buy would be good. Speakers are such a personal thing that it's hard to say what is good sounding for you. Speakers also interact with the room in different ways and so some speakers are just a better fit in a certain room than others. That isn't to say there aren't good speakers and bad speakers, which would be good or bad for everyone in every room, but some "good" speakers may be better than others for a particular implementation.

As for speaker dispersion, having a wide array of drivers actually narrows and controls the dispersion, it doesn't widen it (Curved arrays are an exception to this). One way to imagine this in your head would be to think of the outer speaker drivers providing a kind of sound wall that blocks the sound of the inner drivers. What's really happening is that the driver sound waves combine and cancel sound off axis, but the effect is as if a wall has been put around the sound. This isn't all bad, as it controls the dispersion, and when deployed correctly can help ensure that sound radiates evenly across the listening axis while not sending too much sound toward the walls and causing negative reflections.

Having said that, we would need to see data on this Klipsch to know if this is how they have deployed it. In general, horizontal center speakers, especially those with multiple drivers like this have what is known as lobing off axis. It means that as you measure more and more off-axis you get a sudden dip in the response at certain frequencies. Again, this can sometimes be used as a means to reduce reflections, but generally is not an ideal solution. I suspect that Klipsch has used the multiple drivers solely as a way to make the center lower in profile while still playing as loudly as their larger speakers. Because it is not possible to make a horizontally arranged center perform in the same way as a vertically arranged speaker, a big benefit to using the tower as a center is that you get perfect integration across the front stage. Each speaker disperses exactly like the other and so pans are very consistent. In most ultimate performance theaters you will typically see three matched speakers across the front stage as there is simply no way to equal this performance with a different speaker in the center.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Like Matt explained, the horizontal nature of a center speaker "can" (not to be interpreted as "will") result in some uneven sound for folks that are sitting off-center of the speaker. I've heard center channels that sound rather flat and nasally off-center... I've also heard center channels that lose continuity with the front sound stage (sounds from the center channel appear to shift side-to-side or forward-to-back).

SVS stacked a tweeter and mid-range driver on their Ultra Center to help combat these issues. I have a Ultra Center in my theater room and I'm very happy with its performance. I'm not sure how the Klipsch performs (I'm just not that familiar with the speaker), but I'm sure you could find a review that answers that question.

All things being equal, though, if you have the space to deploy three of the same speaker (meaning three towers or three bookshelf designs), that's optimal. Not too many folks have the luxury of doing that.

As for the notion of "brightness." I'm not trying to scare you away from Klipsch. I happen to appreciate brighter speakers because I like the crispness of sound they bring. As Matt points out, 50% of the sound equation involves how your speaker interacts with your room. If your room has hard marble floors and no rugs, little furniture, and bare walls, it's not going to sound great no matter what speaker you buy. A speaker that tends to be brighter may sound better than perfect in a room that has rugs and curtains...

First things first, I'd go to the speaker store that has the Klipsch speakers and listen to a few familiar tracks. Pick something with some strong highs and pick something with some bass... and give them a listen, keeping in mind the speakers will sound different in your home.

Perhaps @JBrax will chime in about his experience with Klipsch. He's a long time owner. And believe me, Klipsch has a huge following of devout fans. It's one the industry's largest speaker manufacturers for a reason! ;-)

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Like Matt explained, the horizontal nature of a center speaker "can" (not to be interpreted as "will") result in some uneven sound for folks that are sitting off-center of the speaker. I've heard center channels that sound rather flat and nasally off-center... I've also heard center channels that lose continuity with the front sound stage (sounds from the center channel appear to shift side-to-side or forward-to-back).

SVS stacked a tweeter and mid-range driver on their Ultra Center to help combat these issues. I have a Ultra Center in my theater room and I'm very happy with its performance. I'm not sure how the Klipsch performs (I'm just not that familiar with the speaker), but I'm sure you could find a review that answers that question.

All things being equal, though, if you have the space to deploy three of the same speaker (meaning three towers or three bookshelf designs), that's optimal. Not too many folks have the luxury of doing that.

As for the notion of "brightness." I'm not trying to scare you away from Klipsch. I happen to appreciate brighter speakers because I like the crispness of sound they bring. As Matt points out, 50% of the sound equation involves how your speaker interacts with your room. If your room has hard marble floors and no rugs, little furniture, and bare walls, it's not going to sound great no matter what speaker you buy. A speaker that tends to be brighter may sound better than perfect in a room that has rugs and curtains...

First things first, I'd go to the speaker store that has the Klipsch speakers and listen to a few familiar tracks. Pick something with some strong highs and pick something with some bass... and give them a listen, keeping in mind the speakers will sound different in your home.

Perhaps @JBrax will chime in about his experience with Klipsch. He's a long time owner. And believe me, Klipsch has a huge following of devout fans. It's one the industry's largest speaker manufacturers for a reason! ;-)

I think what SVS did with the prime center is the best option when a horizontal arrangement is necessary. It will never equal exactly what the towers are like, but it minimizes the problems for sure. I went with 3 matched front speakers because I eventually gave up trying to match a horizontal center to the mains. None the less, this was the best arrangement I ever heard.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Also, Supee, if you do go with a horizontal center, do your best to get the center channel's tweeter to the same height as the left and right channels!

 

[Supee]

great advice gentlemen!!! I really wish I had the funds to "audition" both speaker sets in the home prior to purchasing, but I would be curious about others thoughts about the RC-7 II's.

I have read a lot of reviews and could not find many "constructive" reviews on them. I will do some more digging. Thanks again for additional considerations!

 

[Matthew J Poes]

great advice gentlemen!!! I really wish I had the funds to "audition" both speaker sets in the home prior to purchasing, but I would be curious about others thoughts about the RC-7 II's.

I have read a lot of reviews and could not find many "constructive" reviews on them. I will do some more digging. Thanks again for additional considerations!

You may want to see if a dealer has a pair they could loan you. One of the local audio shops in my town allows this. If I recall you have to put a card or money on file and sign an agreement, but otherwise there is no real commitment.

If not an option, maybe check out dealer show rooms? You may also want to check out the forums to look for local people who own these speakers.

Everyone's tastes are different so it's really hard to say what will sound good to you. Klipsch has a reputation for brighter speakers. Some people like this brightness. Some people, myself included, find it irritating. The SVS speakers you are considering are also on the bright side of neutral and I have a similar opinion of them. The best way to hear these differences will be to look around for some audio shops with a wide selection of brands to do some back to back comparisons.

 

[Supee]

Matthew, what are you currently utilizing in your system?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Matthew, what are you currently utilizing in your system?

Gedlee Abbeys. Three identical across the front. Earl Geddes has retired so his speakers are not available any longer.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I should be careful here too. I don't want to scare you off of your options. In that price range those are very popular speakers. When I say bright, I don't mean horribly so. Like turning the treble up a little.

 

[JBrax]

Did somebody say turn up the treble? Yes please for us old people! I’m in the camp of Klipsch aficionados and have found the sound signature perfect come movie night. While some of the speakers in the Reference series have been a bit bright for me that has since changed. When I purchased my rf-7II’s I found my personal harmonic balance for both movie night and 2 channel music. I would also recommend giving a personal listen to any speaker if you can. I’ve heard many speakers that I really loved but for the price mine rank right up there. If I had it to do over I’d probably take some JTR’s but it’s close.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Great advice from @JBrax... but also, case and point. Those RF-7's sound super sweet to a lot of folks!

I'm thinking those might be gold for your system, @Supee. Great speakers and an excellent price. Give them a listen for sure!