Set up my son inlaw with a home theater built around some older components.

3dbinCanada · Jun 15, 2023

My son inlaw's system except for the display are components I gave him. The amp is a Yamaha RX-V1800 AVR rated conservatively at a 130 Watts/per channel when driving only two channels full bandwidth into 8 ohms. Its a 7 channel amp. I think its was produced in 2008. He has a Panasonic 720P plasma display, a Roku stream stick, and a Bluetooth to analog out converter connected to it. The main speakers are the orginal PSB Alpha, PSB Alpha center channel, and the surrounds are PSB Alpha Minis. There are two subs connected to it, a PSB Subsonic 5 which is a dual port 10" driver, and an Energy S8 single port 8" driver designs.

The initial set up looked like this.

Notice the sub locations. They are oriented with the driver towards the "pretend" listener position under the window.

The sub response in the initial placement

The full frequency response of the initial setup

I did not have my laptop and measurement MIC when we first set up the system.

3dbinCanada · Jun 15, 2023

After moving both subs around and playing with phase, I determined that the best sub locations are as shown

Notice that both subs are now oriented with the drivers facing one another. The Energy sub was placed in the corner. Here is the in room sub responses.

At this point I ran Yamaha's YPAO room correction facility to integrate the remaining speakers with the sub into the room. YPAO put the virtual sub at 12.5 feet from the mic. I then ran a full frequency to see how it looked

There's a nasty notch happening between 65 and 150 Hz. I fixed this by playiing with the distance that YPAO had set and I found by trial and measurment that the best integrated response occured with the sub distance set to 8.5 feet as shown below

The room is an acoustic mess with bare walls, bare concrete floor, and duct work. The only thing sort of helping is that its an open ceiling. Its a bit too much for the earlier versions of YPAO to handle effectively. I set the EQ on YPAO to try and give a flat response. This version of YPAO was only effective from about 250 Hz and up.

Just to make it easier, I'll post full frequency response before and after today's work. There is no minidsp used here.

Before:

After

chrisby · Jul 24, 2023

Almost 6 weeks from your most recent post, so you may have already sorted things out, but in any case, few observations, thoughts.
What are room dimensions/ shape, and as it’s not shown in photos, the intended number of seats, main listening position, and type of seating?
It looks to be one of those long skinny basement areas with irregular height to partially unfinished ceiling.
For what it’s worth, it’s been my experience that firing down the room’s long(er) dimension yields better results - even if an L-shape - and it generally allows for MLP away from back wall. I usually try for that at about 60% of the long dimension. If that’s not possible, endeavour for a combination of absorption and diffusion on the back wall, but realize that the surround effect may not be as immersive.
From the photos it seems the rear surrounds are mounted wider & higher than the mains. If possible, play with that a bit - while the Yammie’s DSP would allow for adjusting delays for varied distances, I always aspire to symmetry of place in regards to MLP and room boundaries.
I also try to avoid large reflective surfaces such as the glass coffee table between the front row and MLP.
And yes, some treatment would most likely help quite a bit - starting with the first reflection points on side walls, what appears to be exposed HVAC ducting - 1/2” felt or even the back side of vinyl faced fibreglass suspended ceiling tiles wrapped in old pillow cases - and more of the floor than the small rug.
How do the RTA, waterfall and spectrographs look? While the final couple of FR curves show some definite improvement, they don’t tell the whole story.
While it isn’t festooned with the latest generation of bells and whistles- sometimes a blessing in disguise - the RV1800 is still a pretty potent piece.
Anyways, these are always fun shared learning experiences, and a great excuse to share a 6-pack or whatever your favorite beverage might be.

Oh yeah, while it doesn’t possess all the latest bells and whistles - sometimes a blessing in disguise - the RV1800 is still a pretty nice piece.

3dbinCanada · Nov 3, 2024

I spent Halloween until Sunday morning at my daughter's place. I brought the PSB Subsonic 2 that I saved from the landfill and replaced the 8" Energy sub that was there. I kinda plunked it on the right side of the system without taking measurements and it seemed to work really well there. I then cleaned up the wiring on the system first

Before shot

The after shots

3dbinCanada · Nov 3, 2024

Here's the rest of the room

3dbinCanada · Nov 3, 2024

Here the measurements that confirm that the placement of the subsonic 2 works well.

Some background information/definitions is required before I post the measurements. Music Mode is the AVR (Yamaha RX-V1800) set to run the the front L+R speakers (PSB Alphas) full range in conjunction with the subs with no room correction employed (YPAO for Yamaha) by the AVR . Movie Mode is the AVR set to run the front L+R speakers crossed over at 80Hz with YPAO set to flat) To measure the output with the AVR set to Pure DIrect (no YPAO and no subs) I had to manually turn off the subs.

First the sub responses only. With only the Subsonic 5 running, one can see a deep notch in the 55Hz region. With only the Subsonic 2 running, there's a very deep notch around 110Hz. With both subs running, the notch at 55 Hz is gone and the notch at 110Hz is also gone, There is a notch at 105 Hz but the PSB Alpha's will fill that in as shown next.

Full frequency sweeps running. Same idea as above. Subsonic 5 only, then Subsonic 2 only, and finally both Subsonic 5+2 subs running. As you can see the PSB Alphas took away that notch around 105 Hz.

Next graph shows just how much the subs enhance the bass. The purple trace is music mode with the two subs engaged along with the PSB Alphas. The pink trace is just the output of the PSB Alphas with the subs powered off. The AVR model is old and engaging the Pure Direct on the AVR turned off the ability to run measurements. I simulated by powering off the subs.

Simulated Pure Direct verses Music Mode.jpg

The last graph shows the difference between Music and Movie modes with both subs running.

3dbinCanada · Nov 12, 2024

I bought a pair of used 26" high metal speaker stands for my son inlaw to replace the previous stands that I bought for him. The vinyl on the old stands is cracking and coming off in chunks as can be seen on the base of these stands

This what I picked up for him for a scant $50.

Sonnie Parker · Nov 13, 2024

Are they using the room as much as you were hoping they would?

3dbinCanada · Nov 13, 2024

Sonnie Parker said:
Are they using the room as much as you were hoping they would?

Yes, they are beginning too. I'm going to help him string some fabric up on the ceiling as the ceiling is exposed. He's trying to make it more homy for my daughter.

Todd Anderson · Nov 13, 2024

Cool space - I completely missed this thread when you started it.

Just to follow up on @chrisby comments - did you consider setting the system up on end wall, allowing it to run lengthwise?

I'm guessing you placed everything in a way that maximizes the usability of the space - which makes total sense from a functionality perspective.

Based on your measurements, you're making good use of two subs! Well done!

3dbinCanada · Nov 13, 2024

Todd Anderson said:
Cool space - I completely missed this thread when you started it.

Just to follow up on @chrisby comments - did you consider setting the system up on end wall, allowing it to run lengthwise?

I'm guessing you placed everything in a way that maximizes the usability of the space - which makes total sense from a functionality perspective.

Based on your measurements, you're making good use of two subs! Well done!

Its not a dedicate space so sharing is caring here

Mike Schramm · Nov 14, 2024

3dbinCanada said:
Yes, they are beginning too. I'm going to help him string some fabric up on the ceiling as the ceiling is exposed. He's trying to make it more homy for my daughter.

It's fun seeing newbies catching the A/V bug. Such a fun hobby to get into. Kudos to you for getting them up and running!

3dbinCanada · Nov 19, 2024

I helped my son-inlaw staple landscape barrier to the ceiling of his basement to help stop the dust from dropping everywhere. Because he's renting the house from the Canadian military, he's not able to put something permanent up like a drop or dry wall ceiling, hence the landscape fabric.

Here are some pics

Below is a pic of the crud that falls from the unprotected ceiling.

The listening space when the room lights are off

dan77 · Nov 23, 2024

Great thread. Love the objective approach. Love how you are helping the younger set out.

Set up my son inlaw with a home theater built around some older components.

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