2 way Danley Synergy build

[NBPK402]

A friend of mine will be helping me out, and making a mold for the Synergy horns...he will also be helping me with the fiberglass construction. We should be starting in the next week or two (he is currently moving).

I am going to be using B&O Icepower amp modules...2 per speaker. 1 50w, and 1 125w, but both will be running in bridged mode so I can run balanced.

I have a question... Would it be ok to run both of them inside of each synergy cabinet or should I run them both recessed into the rear of the cabinet, and cover with perforated plexi for cooling?

 

[NBPK402]

Today I ground the flange supports down on 2 sides for 2 more of the k402 horns. I have one more on the way that will also need to be ground down too for the MEH (Synergy style with no patent) horns. I now have enough horns to convert 4 of them to MEH. I also have all the woofers needed , Speakon connectors, and I am just waiting for my neighbor to have some free time to work on the amp, and mod the horns. We are going to try the horns without a cabinet, and run REW, and tune the horn. Once we do that we are going to use the MDF cabinet I used to transport the original horn to mexico as a test for a sealed cabinet MEH horn. I am hoping that we like the open air horn the best, as it will be less expensive, and I can still dress up the frame work from some side wood.

 

[NBPK402]

The 4th horn arrived on Friday. My friend said he should be able to start on the mods for the horns next week. I will post up pics when we get the mods done. Then I will also post up some REW pics without a cabinet, and with a cabinet.

 

[tesseract]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the pics!

 

[chrapladm]

Always glad to see this project progressing. Sadly I havent started on mine yet but hopefully soon.

 

[NBPK402]

I know what you mean. I just ordered another case for the remaining 50wpc pair of icepower amp modules I had when we built the first amp in California. I figure there is no need for balanced on my horns for the surrounds. Lol

We will have 4 of the synergy speakers done hopefully soon, as my friend is swamped with work right now. I have come up with a little idea for a mod to make them solid. My idea is to get 3/4" MDF, and bond it to the back side of the horns. We were going to just bond the round woofer pads, but now I am thinking of doing the whole back of the horn. There are a few reasons for this.
1. To stiffen the horn
2. We are going to test the speakers in 2 different configs.. one is as a sealed box, and the other is as an open baffle horn.
3. If we make the back of the horns with mdf..l I can then add a support under the rear of the horn for support in the cabinet, and also for a open baffle horn...with the support as an integral part of the design. The 2nd reason is if we go open baffle... We can either veneer the back or do an automotive paint finish.

 

[NBPK402]

I have been working on design ideas so far. I have an idea for the sealed box...now my idea is very similar to the picture in that the midrange horn would extend past the cabinet, but I am thinking of rotating the horn 90 degrees like it is usually used. Now I really like the look of the one in the picture, but I do not know which orientation would be best with my untreated tall ceilings. Now another thing is my surrounds will def be laying down , and not upright like the one in the pic. How important is it to have the speakers all orientated the same?

The box would entirely seal off the back chamber driver, and woofers. The most difficult part I think will be getting the angles right for cutting the hole for the horn to sit in. I think I still have an electronic angle reader, and if I do I think it should not be too hard. I am thinking the easiest way is to cut the front piece of MDF into 4 pieces, and then cut the angles, and reassemble. I also would like to make the side walls curve in to a point about 1' wide at the rear. I would also make some support beams inside the cabinet.

What do you think?

 

[chrapladm]

Isnt your horn going to be significantly bigger than the pictured one?

 

[NBPK402]

I am looking at 4' high if it is mounted laying down like they normally are, and it is almost 40" wide.the cavity below if I make it a sealed version will be a larger box, but if I make it an open baffle design I will just make the front to the floor. So if it is on its side it will still be the same height... I would just need to angle it if ai make it upright. If it is upright I would have about a 10" base .
The stand doesn't need to go full width if the horn... It could maybe 2'wide.

Would it matter if the surround channels had the horns lengthwise, and the fronts were upright?

 

[NBPK402]

Isnt your horn going to be significantly bigger than the pictured one?

I was looking at the specs for their speaker, and it looks like their speaker is a bit deeper than mine will be. I also saw that mine will be about the same height with just the horn as their complete speaker.

I now have the basic fronts cut already. We need to now cut the rectangles to insert the horn I to. The cabinet will be about 2' x2' x4'. The bottom of the horn will be about 12" from the bottom of the cabinet, I am debating on making a trim ring to go behind the horn for strength, and cosmetic reasons.
I tried to make the triangles for the horn stiffening and was not successful (up to my satisfaction). I talked with my friend, and he said we need to use the CNC to get it made correctly.

 

[NBPK402]

Update...today I went over to my friends house to check on the progress of the build. All 4 horns have the slots cut. Ow, and the front motherboard has been designed...just awaiting assembly for the 4 horns. I received my Mahagony veneer earlier this week, and now I am just waiting for the veneer glue.

 

[tesseract]

Those Synergy horns sure are interesting. I'd love to experience the Danley sound one day!

 

[NBPK402]

I have never even heard a Synergy horn other than the one we built from MDF...I goofed and made the ports round when they were supposed to be ovaled out. We compared it with my friends. Modified Klipsch LaScalas. I cannot remember much, except that in some ways they were considerably more revealing. There was an awkward problem that I now think was from the wrong port size.

I cant wait to hear them too! My friend who is machining them says he wants to hear these too!

 

[tesseract]

I am definitely a drivers physically time-aligned, horn-loaded fan.

 

[NBPK402]

We have the edge of the port 6.25" from the horn driver... I believe this gives us about a 500hz crossover for the woofers. The port size gives us a 10:1 compression ratio... if that means anything to you.

 

[chrapladm]

Awesome to see these coming to life.

 

[NBPK402]

I have been wanting them for 3 years, and I finally have enough horns to make 4 horns...later this year I hope to make 1 more horn so we can run 5 channels of K402 MEHs (synergy style).

 

[NBPK402]

My friend said front motherboard should be veneered toward the end of this coming week. I hope to have 3 Horns in the house the following week to begin assembling a frame. Once I have a frame...I will be ready to start installing the drivers, and then start tuning.

 

[NBPK402]

Running a little behind schedule...front baffles are now made, and awaiting veneer. I just picked up 5 more 4x8 sheets of MDF for the cabinet portion. We are hoping the design allows us to install the cabinet with the horn front baffle, and 2 woofers already installed...if not then we will install the woofers once the cabinet is installed, and just seal it off with the removable rear panel. I think we will have enough room to install the woofers after the cabinet is installed. I know I have plenty of room to install the bottom one, just not sure on the top one. The plan is to install a couple of threaded inserts, and then install a short piece of threaded rod loctite in. By doing this we can then use them as alignment pins, and also put a nut on them to help secure the woofers.

 

[NBPK402]

My friend said they should be ready next week... We have a little change for now though, due to the Corona outbreak. I will be picking up the baffles without the veneer...this is so I can finalize the design as either OB or cabinet, and decide the shape for a cabinet. The horns will be ready to install in the baffles, and I will temporarily mount the woofers as they will need to be removed for the veneer at a later date.

I will post pics as soon as I get them in the house and start to assemble and design.

 

[NBPK402]

Just got them home... I have one assembled up to mak8ng the support braces for the rear. I will make 2 identical, and then make a 2 piece cabinet for 1. Once we are that far i will test with cabinet and without to see what we get. Once i have them the way I like....they will be sent to my friend for veneering. I have to say they weigh over 100lbs already, and i think they will be around 200lbs each when completed. The front baffle is 2 layers of 3/4" MDF.

 

[chrapladm]

I apologise if this was mentioned but are these going to stay sealed in the horn?

 

[NBPK402]

I apologise if this was mentioned but are these going to stay sealed in the horn?

If you mean are the woofers going to be sealed to the horn, that is a yes. The ports are situated for the desired crossover (my basic terms, as this is what I have interpreted it to be from reading about this mod.).

I have never heard a version of this that was actually made with a K402. The only one I have ever heard was the one I made out of wood, and it sounded very good compared to my friends heavily modified La Scalas. In some ways from what I recall they were superb, and in 1 or 2 areas around the crossover it was not near as good. I just recently looked at a pic of my wooden one and noticed what the problem was. We made the hole the with the correct hole saw, but we made the oval less than half the length it was supposed to be. This time it will be the size spec 'd.

 

[NBPK402]

Today I got 2nd 1 up to see how it would look in position as a center channel. Once I get a proper rear mount support...I will start to wire it up (it will sit 2 1/2" lower once the proper support is fabricated). I also need to paint the MDF where the ports are, and misc other items to get it ready to tune. 1 more left to build up for the front 3 channels.

 

[NBPK402]

I have been doing some work on getting all 3 completed minus cabinets. The bass is not quite as powerful or deep as I had hoped, But it does have some nice spaciousness. I will see if Chris is done with the tune. If he is I will work on placement to see if that helps the bass. Cabinets will most likely not be done for months down the road as I still have the 3 channel biamp amp to make, and 2 4 channel non balanced amps with built in MiniDSP HD 2x4 crossovers to build.

Right now my left speaker is 40" from the side wall, and 32" from the front wall...
Left channel is 42" from the side curtain, and 32" from the curtain. The center is 31" from the front wall.
all measurements are from the horn rim.

So far I am really liking the sound...just need a bit more warmth on the vocals downward. I know a good sub would take care of it, but I want to see if we can get more warmth with cabinet next.