AL Convolver vs JRiver Built-in Convolution

[whoareyou]

Can anyone who has tried each of these solutions provide some pros /cons for using the AL vs Jriver implementations?

Thanks

 

[hulkss]

The Jriver convolver is not partitioned and has a lot of calculation latency based on the number of filter taps, even with minimum phase filters. The AL convolver can operate with no latency if you use only minimum phase filters and the filters can have as many taps as you like.

 

[HerbertWest]

additionally, I had issues with more than 8 channels on the Jriver convolver.

 

[mccarty350]

I'll give you a compelling reason for a stand alone convolver.

Let's say you want to hear games or system sounds while you are playing music. if you point your system at the jriver WDM driver or ASIO driver the second anything on your system makes a noise it will interrupt your music and replace it with an IPCM stream from the system's sounds and your music will stop.

If you have a mixer in between (I am using voicemeeter) to send jriver and all of your system sounds to you can pipe that mixer's output to the stand alone audiolense convolver which is super light and then have everything on your system convolved. If you are running a fully active system and your convolution file acts as your entire crossover then NOT having convolution in place means that low frequency output can hit your tweeters and annihilate them.

That's my use case and primary reason for going in this direction long term.

 

[hulkss]

I like the option of a Plug-In convolver. That way I can use it with other DSP plug-ins in any stand-alone audio host. I do all my audio processing in 'Reaper" which is a multi-channel digital audio workstation.

 

[jjazdk]

Hmm... I have just selected JRiver WDM as my soundcard in Windows, and it works absolutely flawless. I don't have any strange audio blasting through the system at any time.

I'll give you a compelling reason for a stand alone convolver.

Let's say you want to hear games or system sounds while you are playing music. if you point your system at the jriver WDM driver or ASIO driver the second anything on your system makes a noise it will interrupt your music and replace it with an IPCM stream from the system's sounds and your music will stop.

If you have a mixer in between (I am using voicemeeter) to send jriver and all of your system sounds to you can pipe that mixer's output to the stand alone audiolense convolver which is super light and then have everything on your system convolved. If you are running a fully active system and your convolution file acts as your entire crossover then NOT having convolution in place means that low frequency output can hit your tweeters and annihilate them.

That's my use case and primary reason for going in this direction long term.

 

[mccarty350]

JJazdk, try playing music in jriver and then watch a youtube video. If your system is pointed at the WDM driver then youtube will start feeding through jriver and shut down your music and you will instead see 'ipcm' in now playing.

I've hashed this scenario out with the jriver folks in their forum and my voicemeeter solution was one of the selected avenues they espoused as jriver does not operate as a mixer. Basically anything coming in through WDM will stop playback and shift it to playing whatever is pointing at the WDM driver.

Thread on jriver forums regarding this topic: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133374.msg924773.html#msg924773

 

[jjazdk]

Ahh, yes.. That makes sense.

I never play several sources at once on my HTPC, so I do not run into that issue.

Your solution is nice, although when reading your thread about it, it seems to have plenty of bugs and can be difficult to get to work.

I prefer to use JRiver as my volume control, as it gives me a nice app & GUI on my phone. Perhaps voicemeeter could just stream to JRiver instead of to the stand alone convolver.

JJazdk, try playing music in jriver and then watch a youtube video. If your system is pointed at the WDM driver then youtube will start feeding through jriver and shut down your music and you will instead see 'ipcm' in now playing.

I've hashed this scenario out with the jriver folks in their forum and my voicemeeter solution was one of the selected avenues they espoused as jriver does not operate as a mixer. Basically anything coming in through WDM will stop playback and shift it to playing whatever is pointing at the WDM driver.

Thread on jriver forums regarding this topic: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133374.msg924773.html#msg924773

 

[juicehifi]

^^

I have been using jriver as a virtual sound card for years, first with its embedded convolver and later with Audiolense Convolver. I turn off all system sounds on all my PC-s .... I can't stand those sounds. I switch between watching web-tv, youtube, Spotify and playing from jriver. What you describe can happen, but I do not see that as a frequent occuring scenario, causing problems. It has never happened in the 3 systems where I use jriver.

 

[mccarty350]

Mine works perfect now with AL convolver. I pipe everything to voicemeeter from everywhere, it mixes it and then sends it to AL convolver.

I have a different use case, I want to be able to play a computer game while listening to music. I've done it for years it is very calming and how I got a lot of my listening in. I have everything autostarting with windows without stability or crashing issues now and it works great - but it took a LOT to get here.

 

[Ofer]

^^

I have been using jriver as a virtual sound card for years, first with its embedded convolver and later with Audiolense Convolver. I turn off all system sounds on all my PC-s .... I can't stand those sounds. I switch between watching web-tv, youtube, Spotify and playing from jriver. What you describe can happen, but I do not see that as a frequent occuring scenario, causing problems. It has never happened in the 3 systems where I use jriver.

I would opt for that yesterday. If only I could understand how to route 1(!) external source to JRiver and use it's convolver to send xo and corrections. I tried the voicemeeter way but it didn't work for me, and anyway I don't want to play several sources at once like mccarty350.

 

[jjazdk]

I use "ASIO Line-In" via "Open Live", to route an external source through JRiver. It works great.

I would opt for that yesterday. If only I could understand how to route 1(!) external source to JRiver and use it's convolver to send xo and corrections. I tried the voicemeeter way but it didn't work for me, and anyway I don't want to play several sources at once like mccarty350.

 

[Ofer]

Thanks @jjazdk ! I will try that. Do you use JR convolver or AL convolver? For internal playback do you assign a different zone? do you have a zone for WDM driver? What audio interface do you use?

 

[jjazdk]

I am using the JRiver Convolver, but the convolver should not matter.
For my use I have not assigned a different zone, I just select the Open Live from the drop down menu. So, I always use the same zone.
Mhy audio interface is a Prism Sound Atlas daisy chained with an RME interface to get enough output channels :-)

 

[Ofer]

That is some interface... So if I understand correctly the asio live is runs thorough your PSA interface not the RME? from combing the web it seems that there is an issue with RME, at least the FF and asio live in JRiver, it just doesn't work as multi client asio with that app. In my hands it didn't work with the AL standalone convolver either. There was a user named aps who managed it with the UFX series, alas he is no longer active in this forum.

 

[jjazdk]

If you use the JRiver convolver the interface does not have to support multiclient, since JRiver is both input and output.

 

[Ofer]

Maybe so but it doesn't work, apperantly not just for me. Did it work for you with a RME interface?

 

[jjazdk]

I have used "Open Live" with a Focusrite Scarlett and with the Prism Sound Atlas, with no problems.

But, I have not tested Open Live with the RME interface, since the RME is daisy chained to the Prism Sound.