HOUSE CURVE

[davidpou]

Hi and happy new year !

I have loaded a house curve in "Preferences - House Curve" panel (here in attachment), and the explanation below states that I shoud see "the house curve symbol next to the target trace value in the EQ panel"

Sorry but i can t see the symbol anywhere.... can someone show me where it should be please with a picture ? thanks

david

 

[EarlK]

Hi David,

The Yellow highlight seen in the pic below, shows where one should see the word " HOUSE ".

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Re the Harmon Curve, don’t feel the need to be married to it. Different rooms typically need different curves, so a “one size fits all” approach like the Harmon may not work with your room. Specifically, you may feel that more or less bass is needed. Same with the high frequency roll-out.

No problem giving it a try, but if things don’t sound right, feel free to explore a different approach. Don’t just think “It’s Harmon, the problem must be me.”

Regards,
Wayne

 

[DanDan]

+1 IMO other 'classic' curve is also worth a try. Using Dirac Lives freely adjustable Target I tweaked for Translation between my Control Room and several domestic systems here.
I ended up with something very similar to B&K, but small tilts in the spectrum or different turnover frequencies had quite big effects.

 

[davidpou]

Hi David,

The Yellow highlight seen in the pic below, shows where one should see the word " HOUSE ".

Thanks a lot.
One needs to be talked to like a four years old sometimes.... Well, at least I do !

and if you choose "add room curve" in "target setting" it shows what you entered in the "preferences EQ" as target, and if not chosen, it is the house curve you entered in the "house curve panel" that is displayed....is that correct ?

 

[davidpou]

Re the Harmon Curve, don’t feel the need to be married to it. Different rooms typically need different curves, so a “one size fits all” approach like the Harmon may not work with your room. Specifically, you may feel that more or less bass is needed. Same with the high frequency roll-out.

No problem giving it a try, but if things don’t sound right, feel free to explore a different approach. Don’t just think “It’s Harmon, the problem must be me.”

Regards,
Wayne

i was not intending to use the harman curve necessarily, it is just meant to understand this part of REW, i never paid attention to.

But while we are at it I wanted to ask you guys about my bass pb.
I am trying to make a 2.1 system with two JBL4425 and one SVS sub, using mini DSP 2x4 HD.

My Pb is this one:
although the sub seems quite capable on movies AND music out of my AVR, when i try to use it on a 2.1 HIFI system, I dont get the "humrf " bass I seek... The chain is streamer to Bryston BP17 to mini DSP then to the amp and the active sub. With + 9dB in the sub bass i thought I had enough but it is barely at level ...may be it could be considered elegant or just what it needs... for some... but i seek, not overtly boomy, but just to hear what the bass junckies have put in their r n b or Hip Hop tracks as they intended to...
here is the curve I got (no especially proud of it) ... can the feel of lack comes from the non progressive rise ? shall i rise more progressively from 160 Hz to 60 Hz (red line)?

 

[teyhyrh4r]

Re the Harmon Curve, don’t feel the need to be married to it. Different rooms typically need different curves, so a “one size fits all” approach like the Harmon may not work with your room. Specifically, you may feel that more or less bass is needed. Same with the high frequency roll-out.

No problem giving it a try, but if things don’t sound right, feel free to explore a different approach. Don’t just think “It’s Harmon, the problem must be me.”

Regards,
Wayne

after trying it out, I am pretty convinced above 1000Hz only direct sound should be equalized, and that is flat (which will probably result in a falling curve in untreated rooms).
I did not use REW to window the direct sound though

 

[John Mulcahy]

and if you choose "add room curve" in "target setting" it shows what you entered in the "preferences EQ" as target, and if not chosen, it is the house curve you entered in the "house curve panel" that is displayed....is that correct ?

If you load a house curve and select Add room curve you will get the sum of both.

 

[DanDan]

Check the configuration of your Sub and crossover arrangement. When playing back 2.1 Music the sub needs to be very busy. If the speakers are capable I would run those full range also. The LFE channel in Movie 5.1 is very different to just LF or Sub. It only kicks in when audio is specifically directed there, say for a an explosion.

 

[davidpou]

Check the configuration of your Sub and crossover arrangement. When playing back 2.1 Music the sub needs to be very busy. If the speakers are capable I would run those full range also. The LFE channel in Movie 5.1 is very different to just LF or Sub. It only kicks in when audio is specifically directed there, say for a an explosion.

I will redo with your advice. The sub has either the LFE (one rca ) input or a two rca (red white) inputs... From the mini DSP 2x4 i can send either one or two outputs for the sub.... I used only one for now summing up bass cut off from the L and R speakers... the speakers can go down as 35 Hz at +6 dB at say 40 cm from my back wall....
I need to redo speaker placement as i used to have better response in previous trials.... my room is awfull with large windows, wooden floor, and concrete everywhere.... and not squared ! so i cannot use the room simulator of REW...

 

[davidpou]

i equalized the left and right untill 400 Hz ( +6 db at 60 Hz flat till 35 Hz) and no more. used the potentiometers of the speakers to match the target curve above 400 Hz; and i put the sub on top of that. Tuned the gain of the sub by ear... sounds good !
I didn't measure yet but this could be what i was looking for.
I use a slope of 2.2 dB per octave from 2500 Hz onwards.... at 1.8 like mini dsp advises its too bright for my taste...

time to learn how to time aligne....

 

[DanDan]

Great. I often end up with speakers right at the Front Wall, almost touching. This minimises the SBIR dip and gains free LF headroom.
One might have to tweak the LF side effects. e.g. There might be a stronger Lenght Mode, so Eq that way down and out, very narrow band.
The overall LF might be strong so again adjust, but perhaps by softly blocking reflex ports.
I work with Live Sound quite a lot. Time alignment has become more and more ubiquitous in recent years. But from way way back when it was just delay towers in a field or reverberant Hall or Church, I have never really been happy with it. One can get a serious improvement at one location but it is often worse elsewhere or overall.
In your case, one might try to time and phase align the LF or your speakers with your Sub(s) at the Listener sweet spot. But elsewhere? Also it takes 20mS for a 50Hz wave to grow a pair.......
I would also point, for interest or debate, that multiple LF sources as in Subs or full range 5 surrounds are often preferred. Seems like a lot of incoherence might fill a room better. Heresy? I know, but Christmas is over......;-)

 

[davidpou]

Great. I often end up with speakers right at the Front Wall, almost touching. This minimises the SBIR dip and gains free LF headroom.

yes ! i did that as well in some trials and found an improvement aswell ! I didn't have time to remesure with the LR stuck to the wall. Next week!

One might have to tweak the LF side effects. e.g. There might be a stronger Lenght Mode, so Eq that way down and out, very narrow band.
The overall LF might be strong so again adjust, but perhaps by softly blocking reflex ports.

This is chinese to me

I work with Live Sound quite a lot. Time alignment has become more and more ubiquitous in recent years. But from way way back when it was just delay towers in a field or reverberant Hall or Church, I have never really been happy with it. One can get a serious improvement at one location but it is often worse elsewhere or overall.

got it ! no need to fight here ! happy with that!

In your case, one might try to time and phase align the LF or your speakers with your Sub(s) at the Listener sweet spot. But elsewhere? Also it takes 20mS for a 50Hz wave to grow a pair.......

yes I will try the three boomers only.

I would also point, for interest or debate, that multiple LF sources as in Subs or full range 5 surrounds are often preferred. Seems like a lot of incoherence might fill a room better. Heresy? I know, but Christmas is over......;-)

yes, this is why i didn't try what you suggest ... for being a good boy, i tried to stick to the mini DSP tutorials (except for the HF slope as mentioned above), and these tutorials are asking to do a proper cross over with the sub... I saw somewhere that this was a way to go but never dared... also the floyd Tool's psychoacoustic studies pointing to the fact that trained listeners tend to have a less pronouced bump in the LF than the non trained listeners made me look for just a + 6 or at the most daring +9 dB.... one doesn't want to belong to the coarse people ! I can't imagine where i am now (+17 dB ....

As for placement, JBL people tend to say minimum 80 cm from the back wall, bot one needs a dedicated room for that which i do not have unfortunatly...

And finally I didn't equilize after 400 Hz following the recommandations of Greg Timbers, who's for JBL lovers, a kind of God.

 

[DanDan]

LOL, I'll translate the Mandarin.....

A speaker placed at the Front (Back) wall is at the peak of the Length Mode. It will stimulate it maximumally. Conversely a sub under your seat or desk is in a null and will stimulate modes minimally. Also there is an overall +6dB free lunch LF boost. So one will typically need to back off the overall LF level with a shelf eq. OR impede the reflex ports.
This is not really Heresy! Some speakers came with rubber bungs to do exactly this. I recommend experimenting, from soft blocking with cotton wool, to compressing it, to full airtight.