Speakers sensitivity

[ddude003]

I agree, it should be mandatory to change your gear every 3 years, it should be put into law

Maybe that should include the wives too...

 

[Gerry Iaria]

The subs are certainly the key, I wouldn’t replace the speakers until you have them set up and the crossover set at 80Hz and see how that sounds.

Definitely not 80 in my room, it seems the worst crossover,the best is 110, but not in a hurry to change just yet, unless.....

 

[Gerry Iaria]

Maybe that should include the wives too...

that's a thought

 

[JStewart]

I’m going to be the contrarian here and say objectively speaking the 1961 monitors are very good speakers. The sensitivity spec is accurate. There are Klippel CEA2034 measurements on Erin’s Audio Corner and ASR, as well as measurements done by James Larson on Audioholic, to back this up.

With respect to the low end... clearly Arendal made a choice between a more extended low end or sensitivity/dynamic range. I suspect, but haven’t checked, the sensitivity matches their other speakers in the model line, so customers could mix/match them in the same system, i.e. they will output the same volume with the same voltage, or at least close enough so as not to cost system headroom, because you balance the volume to the quietest (least efficient) speaker.

My last point is this monitor is a sealed speaker and the bass rolloff is close enough to 80dB to call it that. As a sealed speaker the rolloff will be approx 12dB per octave which is exactly what almost every AVR is looking for with their 12dB/octave speaker highpass and 24dB/octave subwoofer low pass xover scheme. I checked the owner’s manual for the cinema 50 and don’t see the xo slopes/types specified in it. An email to marantz customer service would answer the question, if you’re inclined.

I did also see this Marantz has Dirac. If you are using Dirac then the XOs will be Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave slopes for both high and low pass. This would not be ideal with the 1961 monitors for reasons covered in this document (which can also be accessed by link from Dirac’s website) (and disregard that it references Dirac 2. Dirac 3 is the same.)

Setting crossovers in an AVR/pre-pro with Dirac Live 2 room correction

So, if you’re not using Dirac, I advise to keep these very good speakers.
Extra benefit... Happy wife, happy life.

 

[Gerry Iaria]

I’m going to be the contrarian here and say objectively speaking the 1961 monitors are very good speakers. The sensitivity spec is accurate. There are Klippel CEA2034 measurements on Erin’s Audio Corner and ASR, as well as measurements done by James Larson on Audioholic, to back this up.

With respect to the low end... clearly Arendal made a choice between a more extended low end or sensitivity/dynamic range. I suspect, but haven’t checked, the sensitivity matches their other speakers in the model line, so customers could mix/match them in the same system, i.e. they will output the same volume with the same voltage, or at least close enough so as not to cost system headroom, because you balance the volume to the quietest (least efficient) speaker.

My last point is this monitor is a sealed speaker and the bass rolloff is close enough to 80dB to call it that. As a sealed speaker the rolloff will be approx 12dB per octave which is exactly what almost every AVR is looking for with their 12dB/octave speaker highpass and 24dB/octave subwoofer low pass xover scheme. I checked the owner’s manual for the cinema 50 and don’t see the xo slopes/types specified in it. An email to marantz customer service would answer the question, if you’re inclined.

I did also see this Marantz has Dirac. If you are using Dirac then the XOs will be Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave slopes for both high and low pass. This would not be ideal with the 1961 monitors for reasons covered in this document (which can also be accessed by link from Dirac’s website) (and disregard that it references Dirac 2. Dirac 3 is the same.)

Setting crossovers in an AVR/pre-pro with Dirac Live 2 room correction

So, if you’re not using Dirac, I advise to keep these very good speakers.
Extra benefit... Happy wife, happy life.

Thank you very much for your very good reply, I'm not using Dirac, so happy life, my wife has her own tv and soundbar, so happy me then

 

[Gerry Iaria]

another thing, I was offered yesterday a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 6, towers, I know that they are not new, to replace my Arendal, is that a good idea?? wasn't looking for towers, but if they're good, maybe I should consider??

 

[Sonnie Parker]

It would be nice if you could hear them in your room.

 

[Gerry Iaria]

It would be nice if you could hear them in your room.

I suppose that's the only way to see if they're good for me

 

[Head_Unit]

I'd take those sensitivity specs with a grain of salt. Speaker manufacturers know that's something buyers focus on, which means there's a decent chance they'll fudge the spec to make it look as appealing as possible.

Take it from this loudspeaker engineer, often sucked into the marketing whore department, MANY brands lie about sensitivity. And speaker specs in general are useless twaddle, generally smoothed or "adjusted" or just made up by the Marketing department.

There is a thing called "Hofmann's Iron Law" which says speaker design is a tradeoff between how big the speaker is and how sensitive and how low in the bass it goes. (It would also seem to imply that a smaller speaker could go just as low if you apply a lot of power...that's not exactly so in the real world.)

my big concern is the roll-off at 70ish Hz

IIRC Arendal is indeed assuming these will be used with a sub, so like JTR and Power Sound Audio, they purpose give up the lowest bass in order to get more sensitivity. And everything @JStewart said. So to

having speakers with higher sensitivity and lower roll off, will they sound better, easier to drive?

- They would have to be BIGGER says physics/Hofmann.
- For the same volume level, they will be easier to drive in the sense that they will draw less current from the amplifier. They could quite possibly be difficult loads at the limit of the amp power (albeit playing louder than a less sensitive speaker).
- They might or might not sound better; that has little to do with the sensitivity.

Here's measurements of the Arendals
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dal-1961-center-monitor-speaker-review.43190/
Their oversized tweeter waveguide, a really good and inexpensive design idea that has not caught on as much as it should, really helps control the dispersion.

To be fair to your Arendals, you really need to get your subs integrated and the transition from the subs to the Arendals straightened out before getting new speakers, or you'll just perpetuate the same mess. I would recommend starting a different thread about that. List all the makes and models of each speaker, sub, amp, etc and put some PICTURES of the room. Room correction like Audyssey/Dirac/ARC can really improve some problems BUT if speakers/subs are in really bad spots they cannot fix that.

 

[Gerry Iaria]

thank you very much for your reply, I still have the Arendal, but still thinking of changing them, must have this contagios upgrade bug

 

[Mumbo]

The Arendal 1961 Monitor is a sealed speaker and bass response starts falling off a little above 100 Hz and drops approx linearly to 47dB @ 25 Hz. I have run CO at 80, 90, 100Hz as Arendal tends to recommend the 90 & 100 CO's with the 1961 series. There is a small difference that is noticeable but not necessarily bad at any of the levels. I have to drop to 60Hz or increase to 120Hz to really notice anything. Seems that my HSU sub keeps up with 80-100Hz levels so no big deficiencies. If I had young ears, maybe the difference would be more noticeable.

Like everyone else, I feel the need to upgrade every so often but not really sure where I would go that would be "better" at ever increasing cost with the doubling in dollars/Euros/pounds required to get to the next benefit level. I am pretty sure my ears are the limiting factor as well as all senses that decline with age.

 

[Gerry Iaria]

The Arendal 1961 Monitor is a sealed speaker and bass response starts falling off a little above 100 Hz and drops approx linearly to 47dB @ 25 Hz. I have run CO at 80, 90, 100Hz as Arendal tends to recommend the 90 & 100 CO's with the 1961 series. There is a small difference that is noticeable but not necessarily bad at any of the levels. I have to drop to 60Hz or increase to 120Hz to really notice anything. Seems that my HSU sub keeps up with 80-100Hz levels so no big deficiencies. If I had young ears, maybe the difference would be more noticeable.

Like everyone else, I feel the need to upgrade every so often but not really sure where I would go that would be "better" at ever increasing cost with the doubling in dollars/Euros/pounds required to get to the next benefit level. I am pretty sure my ears are the limiting factor as well as all senses that decline with age.

I keep my xo at 110 or 120, but as you said, not sure what to go for, expecially with costs going up and up, would probably like another pair of stand mount, maybe slightly bigger than the Arendal 1961, also they've now been discontinued, so just in case they go wrong, not sure I'll be able to fix them. Had these for just over 5 years, they still sound good, but.......

 

[Mumbo]

I keep my xo at 110 or 120, but as you said, not sure what to go for, expecially with costs going up and up, would probably like another pair of stand mount, maybe slightly bigger than the Arendal 1961, also they've now been discontinued, so just in case they go wrong, not sure I'll be able to fix them. Had these for just over 5 years, they still sound good, but.......

Agreed, I got my LCR monitors around the end of 2022 so only have a couple of years with them. I picked up the 1961 Heights for surrounds in 2023 when they were closing out stock to replace some old surrounds which was a good move as much better speakers than I had.

I have a narrow basement room (3.5m) so big speakers really have no where to go. I have thought about getting some economical used Kef's to try out just to compare sound but have not found a good enough deal yet. I have a little over US$2,000 invested in 5 Arendal speakers and feel that I would have to double that to get to the next level and they would be huge in comparison. I have to smile when I look at the Monitors and observe how small they are but yet can get quite loud without issues. The center fits nicely below the screen with a couple of inches to spare.

In keeping with the subject, I bought an external Class D amp to power the 5 - 4 ohm Arendal's at medium sensitivity (87 & 85dB) as my Denon 3800 seemed to get quite hot running them for extended periods at higher gain. Lots of ways to spend money.

I will probably downsize in the next year or two so that is in the back of my mind and keeps me from "improving" things until I know what the future looks like.