Sub routing w/second sub routing specified 50/50

[whoareyou]

I added a second sub as below and specified a 50/50 split in routing matrix.
In speaker and bass management I then split the sub routing between the FL,FR,C,SR,SL speakers per image below.

One sub is used for XO by 3 channels and other sub used by only 2 channels, so the XO routing is not a 50/50 split.

How does AL handle this situation? Is maintaining a 50/50 split important for the XO settings (i.e should one of the XO's include both subwoofers to maintain a 50/50 split), or
does the 50/50 split only apply to the actual bass channel present in a multichannel recording?

Thanks

 

[jrobbins50]

Why do you want to split the bass in this fashion? If you select route bass to all subs, then you won’t need to pick the bass routing and bass from every channel will get routed, 50-50, to the two subs.

If you really mean to route bass from specific channels to a specific sub, then your routing is fine. But then, I would guess that you need to select 1.00 for the low frequency playback for each sub, since you aren’t summing and splitting.

Bernt can confirm or deny my guess. JCR

 

[whoareyou]

Why do you want to split the bass in this fashion? If you select route bass to all subs, then you won’t need to pick the bass routing and bass from every channel will get routed, 50-50, to the two subs.

If you really mean to route bass from specific channels to a specific sub, then your routing is fine. But then, I would guess that you need to select 1.00 for the low frequency playback for each sub, since you aren’t summing and splitting.

Bernt can confirm or deny my guess. JCR

No matter where I've moved my subs, they always end up working against one another close to where I'd like to use them for improving the bass response.
For example, brown and blue are subs and green is a side speaker. I get better results when only one sub is used because the two subs seem to cancel each other out at around the 30hz point.
I have similar issue with other speakers at various XO'ver points when both subs are involved.
Thanks

 

[whoareyou]

@juicehifi - Hi Bernt, can you provide any more information for how the matrix percentage impacts XO vs individual sub channel?

Thanks

 

[juicehifi]

Can you rephrase the question? Not sure what you’re asking here.

 

[whoareyou]

When you create a two sub, 5.2 layout, using the default Audiolense configuration is as follows and the
channel routing as in the next image

Source material's main bass is output via two subs, so it seems the .5 / .5 values are correct for the source material's main bass channel.

But is the .5 / .5 setting in matrix in any way relevant to the crossovers?

For example, AL's default configuration for 5.2 evenly divides between the 5 & 6 bass channels.
(Two subs used for XO on the center channel), so that half of XO comes from each sub channel.

Hope this makes more sense. Not sure how else to explain.

Then again, maybe I just don't understand this routing matrix

 

[juicehifi]

What you see on the format tab is routing of the the various formats that you have configured (or that was configured as default). In addition to the bass management you see here, you will have bass offloading from each main speaker as per the speaker tab. Those two are different and work independant of each other. The .05 figures only apply to the LFE signal in 5.1 format here.

If you for example sent "low frequency" (the LFE) to the center speaker in the format tab, it would still be split between the two subwoofers, since they are used to offload bass from the center speaker. The difference between the two configurations would be that there would be no low pass if you sent the LFE to the center speaker. In other words, any high frequency artifacts in the LFE feed would be played by the center speaker.

I hope this clarifies it.

 

[Ofer]

Is it possible to have the mains and sub(s) both play the low frequency (overlap)? i.e. having no high-pass filter for mains and sub(s) but different low-pass filter?
for example: sub plays 10-80hz and mains (front left and front right) play 10-20khz.
That way the sub only boosts the low end but doesn't offload the all the low frequency from the main speakers.

 

[juicehifi]

Not exactly, but you should be able to get close enough by tweaking the crossover settings.

 

[Ofer]

How could this be done with xover frequencies? Can this be done by assigning the sub as a third full range speaker and just setting its xover for low freq?

 

[spalmgre]

How could this be done with xover frequencies? Can this be done by assigning the sub as a third full range speaker and just setting its xover for low freq?

I also like to hear an answer to this. Multisub setup can be simulated if the main speakers do go low enough. The advantages would be more sound pressure but more importantly even sound field. MSO software deals with this but does not produce FIR filters.

 

[jjazdk]

Not exactly, but you should be able to get close enough by tweaking the crossover settings.

Could you show us how to tweak the x-over settings to do this?
I have re-arranged my subwoofers and added extra channels, and am considering giving Audiolense another chance, especially if more multisub features was available. Letting my front speakers be part of the subwoofer "array" is a big wish for me.

 

[juicehifi]

There are several ways.

Wide crossovers:

The bass offloading above has less functionality than the "regular" crossover functionality. If you configure the subs as a speaker drivers you get more options:

With Driver overlap enabled, you can either move the speakers' high pass (right speaker) or skip it completely (left speaker)

Resulting crossover for left speaker and left sub:

These crossovers will not sum perfectly, but the global correction will fix it.

You will have to take a new measurement if you move from a 2.2 setup to a 2.0 with two drivers.

 

[whoareyou]

Is driver overlap supposed to work only with front left and front right full range?
I ask because I was playing around with similar configuration and when driver overlap is enabled, high pass cannot be removed from other full range speaker selections.

 

[juicehifi]

It works with all speakers, but not for bass-offloading