UMIK-1 vs UMIK-2

[thothsong]

Okay so post Dirac rta with what noise source? PN or pink? Or are you taking about something else as “real content”

Like what am I looking for?

I mean some section of actual music, which you perceive is better with the UMIK-2 Dirac. See if there are significant differences somewhere in the spectrum, for average or peak. Or to be more complete, do that for each speaker separately, with only that speaker enabled while playing the music.

 

[Andrew Slater]

I mean some section of actual music, which you perceive is better with the UMIK-2 Dirac. See if there are significant differences somewhere in the spectrum, for average or peak. Or to be more complete, do that for each speaker separately, with only that speaker enabled while playing the music.

Okay yeah that might be difficult to measure
I suppose I could make in impulse response out of 13000 samples of a song in the car and convolve it and use that as a medium……


Might take some time….. do you say this with personally or professionally? Like will this be revealing as a known method? Or a guess ?

 

[thothsong]

Okay yeah that might be difficult to measure
I suppose I could make in impulse response out of 13000 samples of a song in the car and convolve it and use that as a medium……


Might take some time….. do you say this with personally or professionally? Like will this be revealing as a known method? Or a guess ?

Nothing that complicated. Just play the music as is, and measure a section with RTA, for example with Forever averaging, and capture both current and peak at the end of the section. Do that for each speaker. I'm just an amateur, guessing that what you're seeing is some directional sensitivity difference between the mics, and suggesting a possible way to evaluate that.

But before you do that, you've already done just a straight frequency sweep measurement of each individual speaker from inside the car, with both mics, with the mic remaining in the same vertical fixed position? And the sweeps match for each speaker?

 

[Andrew Slater]

Nothing that complicated. Just play the music as is, and measure a section with RTA, for example with Forever averaging, and capture both current and peak at the end of the section. Do that for each speaker. I'm just an amateur, guessing that what you're seeing is some directional sensitivity difference between the mics, and suggesting a possible way to evaluate that.

But before you do that, you've already done just a straight frequency sweep measurement of each individual speaker from inside the car, with both mics, with the mic remaining in the same vertical fixed position? And the sweeps match for each speaker?

Yes using four different mics, all of them have the same general shape…
Of course there’s small differences a couple DB here a couple DB there but nothing that would suggest anything otherwise and it’s mostly above about 1000 Hz everything below that seems to be like right on top of each other….


I’ll fiddle with it with it here tonight I’ll try that and see if I can see anything that’s kind of an interesting idea

 

[thothsong]

Of course there’s small differences a couple DB here a couple DB there

Could you post an mdat file with some comparison sweep measurements (UMIK-1 v -2)? A couple dB seems pretty different, to me.

 

[JStewart]

Dirac has the ability to examine project files if they wish. Seemed to me their comparison of two with different mics would be the path to the answer if they didn’t already know.
If they were to find a difference then perhaps they could replicate it for all mics.

 

[Andrew Slater]

Okay did some extended testing

It’s response is the same as umm6 and umik1s

So tonally there identical almost

So I was wrong there ….

The umik2 however the end result in Dirac has a tiny bit more transparency in sound field… can locate items in stage easier with test tracks and music

A tiny bit less “fuzzy” if you will….. not as big of deal as I was making it…. But definitely an improvement….

 

[ivo.f.doma]

I know it has been a long time since you wrote this, but I would like to ask about the current state of affairs. I'm from Europe and my sister from the USA would like to bring me a UMIK for my new (I don't have it yet) receiver. I can have the UMIK1 CSL for 120 and the UMIK2 CSL for 210, both already with US shipping. Which one should I buy? I'm buying it once, so if it makes sense to buy UMIK2 instead, I'm happy to do it.
Well thank you.

 

[AustinJerry]

I have both and have never been able to prove that the UMIK-2 offers superior performance. This includes listening tests as well as REW measurement comparisons. You can't go wrong with either mic.

 

[Andrew Slater]

I have both and have never been able to prove that the UMIK-2 offers superior performance. This includes listening tests as well as REW measurement comparisons. You can't go wrong with either mic.

On Dirac it shows

On manual tuning I can see where it looks the same , if you get into noise floor issues tho ….if you run 8K ffts the low noise floor helps also

It definitely noticed on Dirac

 

[AustinJerry]

On Dirac it shows

On manual tuning I can see where it looks the same , if you get into noise floor issues tho ….if you run 8K ffts the low noise floor helps also

It definitely noticed on Dirac

I use Dirac Live with DLBC as well. Where did you notice differences, in listening tests or with objective REW measurements?

 

[Andrew Slater]

I use Dirac Live with DLBC as well. Where did you notice differences, in listening tests or with objective REW measurements?

I noticed it in 7 Dirac live systems I’ve tuned , then re tuned with CSL umik2

Noticeably better sound.

1db here , 1 db there , all over the place adds up to an algorithm that does the same exact thing every time and a smoother mic makes a better tune

Stage was more transparent also , that was the most noticeable

 

[ivo.f.doma]

OK, thanks for the opinions. So, based on that audible difference, would you pay double the price for the UMIK2?

 

[Andrew Slater]

OK, thanks for the opinions. So, based on that audible difference, would you pay double the price for the UMIK2?

Absolutely!!!!!

The CSL version

The imaging and transparency alone is so worth it

I would pay 300-400 for the difference

On Dirac it’s better then my EW M23R
It’s very good

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Thank you very much for the advice. I appreciate your experience and I believe that your recommendation will help me to achieve the best calibration results.

 

[JStewart]

Absolutely!!!!!

The CSL version

The imaging and transparency alone is so worth it

I would pay 300-400 for the difference

On Dirac it’s better then my EW M23R
It’s very good

Just curios, is your experience on car audio only or to both car and home with Dirac and the two Umiks?

 

[Andrew Slater]

Just curios, is your experience on car audio only or to both car and home with Dirac and the two Umiks?

Both

More so with car because of the immensely reflective environment. But still noticed differences in my shop system also

More transparent imaging and smoother calibration

 

[JStewart]

Both

More so with car because of the immensely reflective environment. But still noticed differences in my shop system also

More transparent imaging and smoother calibration

Thank you.

 

[ManCaveAudio]

It looks like this is about as close as your going to get... https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4700H/NA/EN/GFNFSYuyviicam.php
Your looking to convert REW Parametric EQ to Denon 9 band Graphic EQ... Maybe there is some software, like Equalizer APO, that can do this conversion... And you would most likely have to do the entry into the Denon by hand... Come to think about it, maybe REW's recently added AU N-Band EQ filter might work... Or one of the Generics... See https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/equaliser.html#top

Thanks....will try the same

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hey folks, the question about REW Measurements and the Denon X4700H have been moved to:

How to Import REW Measurements to a Denon X4700H AVR

Hi, Can anyone help to guide or share or make video on how to import or set REW measurements, calibration, results, EQ, Filters etc in to the AVR without any physical DSP device connected with AVR. I am using denon x4700h in 5.1.4 configuration. Thanks in advance.

www.avnirvana.com

 

[ManCaveAudio]

Thanks....will try the same

Yes, Denon x4700 has 9 band Geq.

I am new learner of REW. Some one can help me to learn the REW in detail.

For learning I have experiment speaker measurements and filters correction and the same entered on my Yamaha 5.1 ch very basic AVR (Yamaha 1840 - which has no auto calibration) wich has 7 band Geq and I noticed a lot improvement in audio clarity. My Polk ES15 seems to be a total different speakers now with lot of clarity in bass and high frequency department.

 

[WarthogARJ]

Looking at AustinJerry's graphs, I think it would be useful to look at the DIFFERENCE between the RAW signal and the CORRECTED signal. And then plot the two DIFFERENCE plots.