What's my next step? I'm new to the EQ Rabbit Hole

[veshman]

Hi everyone!

I'm super excited to take the leap into EQing my room for better sound, but I could use some help.

I've gone through some of the tutorials in an effort to get better subwoofer response in my Audyssey setup.

I used the Umike-1 to take measurements with REW. Then I used the EQ feature to match it to the Harmon house curve. I basically let the algorithm decide the target dB.

I then applied the corrections to MiniDSP 2x4HD to input 1 and 2 and output 1 and 2.

Then I took another reading with REW.

I don't know if I got what I'm supposed to, and I'm not really sure what to do next.

I *think* the system sounds better, but it's hard to tell. Some music sounds better, but on movies where I'm expecting some rumble from an explosion -- that has softened a bit. Not sure if that's the "correct" intention from the mastering, or I need to do more tweaking.

Would love to learn and get some advice on what to do next. On the graph, the Red is the measurement taken without the miniDSP. The orange is the after applying the REQ EQ to the MiniDSP 2x4HD. I've attached the EQ screen from REW and the imported graph on MiniDSP plugin.

Thanks in advance!

Bhavesh

 

[UKSPAWN]

keep going iv just been through the same.
One of the most important things is to make sure your measurments are repeatable and mic position is absolutley identical each time.

if you come back in 4 days then its hard to know if the measurments you take are relevant to what you did 4 days ago...
Try to do as much as you can in 1 session, dedicate a full day if possible where there are no interruptions etc.

looking better but id say a little too much cutting has been done below like 60Hz, do you have sub(s)?

Also a LOG view is prefereable to read and interpret than a Linear.

And its easy enough to start over so just keep going, you will eventually start to recognise what youve done right and wrong.

These forums are good and theres some helpful folk here. Good luck!

 

[veshman]

HI UKSPAWN, thanks for the tips. Especially about the mic.... I'm keeping it in the same place for as long as I can get away with it with my wife lol. Also, since I'm still learning, I'm just taking 1 measurement. Once I know what I'm doing, I'll do the multiple measurements and average thing.

Regarding subs, yes, I do have 2 subs.

One is a definitive subwoofer that is larger than the other sub.

The other is a small REL that is connected via high-level speaker wires to Front R (that's how REL "blends" sound for musicality). But it is also connected via RCA cable for LFE.

Log view - I'll look for it.

With the cutting below 60, perhaps I should just change the frequency output range to start at 60 instead of 20? I guess I don't understand why REW is cutting it so much lower than 60. It thought since it is supposed to match the Harmon house curve, it would only cut it to the curve, not below it.

Thanks!

Bhavesh

 

[UKSPAWN]

in the EQ window what it says is predicted is just that, a prediction it wont always be eactly what you get.

It also looks like you may have some cancellations between the 2 subs or the speakers and subs.

Depite what rel would tell you, and i do agree with them in a non-DSP based system. I would in your case connect both subs to the 2x4HD via RCA and remove the speaker level. this will better allow you to dial in the delays between 2 subs and between speakers and subs.

This will help remove some of those nulls and peaks.

Also if your speakers are ported and or one of your subs is ported that could cause phase cancellations also. it may be preferable to plug the speaker ports and roll them off 60-100hz range whatever works best. and either run both subs ported or both sealed. in my experience thats worked out best for me.

 

[veshman]

Thanks again for your input!

I'll remove the speaker level on the REL and give that a try. Part of the reason I was using it is because my LCR speakers are On-Wall KEFs, so they don't produce low sound very well, and having the REL speaker allows them to sound fuller.

But perhaps I'm going about it all wrong since I am using DSP. I've always resisted DSP and Audyssey because I always felt like my 2-channel audio sounded better without it.

Both subs are sealed, so I don't have the port issue.

I'll do some re-wiring in the morning and do some new testing. Thanks!

Bhavesh

 

[UKSPAWN]

yes i wouldnt worry about the LCR sounding less full because the bass is so non directional below 80hz-ish.

If possible , experiment with corner loading both subs, one in each front corner. move them around to give you a balance between response with less peaks and dips, and also focus on the place that gives you the most LOW DOWN room gain, as this will give you pleanty of headroom when 'DSPing'

I was also fearful of DSP but after using it. i would never go back to no DSP, unless maybe i was listening near field in a rather large room.

about 70%* of what you hear is the room (semi random number but you get the point) you could put some $300,000 speakers in a untreated room and they wouldnt sound as good as a modest set in a good room with good and concervative DSP. in my honest opinion that is. others will argue im sure. each to their own

 

[veshman]

Good morning from Chicago. I disconnected the high level input and made set the subwoofer setting in the Denon receiver to LFE plus main. Main speakers are set to small.

I remeasured the room, ran the REW EQ, applied it to miniDSP, but I don't think the graphs are looking too different. It still seems to bring the low frequencies below 60 way too low.

 

[veshman]

This output seems a little better.... Maybe I'm on the right track? I just don't understand why it cuts the low frequency so much below the target.....

 

[UKSPAWN]

HM i wouldnt set the boosts to allow 12db personally thats quite a lot. I stay to 3db and other say cut only. so id do that first. and just bring the level down to 70db instead of 80 maybe...

So the SW output of your AVR is feeding the miniDSP right?
if so,

Step 1 is to set the crossover in your AVR to as high as possible.. 200hz maybe.
then measure the subs with their crossover dials at the back of the subs also set to maximum.
then we know the full range of the subs we are not confusing the crossover of the av, the crossover of the sub etc. and make sure the phase of subs is 0 initially.
Make sure in miniDSP all crossovers are disabled, all EQs are disabled also.

then measure from there. then EQ the sub without crossovers and go beyond where you will crossover. so if you intend to crossover at 80hz definitly EQ upto 150hz. preferably 200. if you dont EQ above the crossover enough a large spike somewhere at 200hz cound cause cancelation in your mains for example. ~

Did you move your subs to the corners are are they already? if thats possible i definitly would do that and measure a few positions, individually 1 sub at a time, find the position with best room gain at low freq. then when you cut you wont be eating up so much headroom.

then also dont use the REW EQ setting for SW as it will roll of the bass, then when you add the crossover it will again, roll off the bass giving too steep slope.

I use NONE and then add a room curve from 200hz to 20 at something like 2db/oct
0 for the High freq falloff as it doesnt matter.

Then when you add your crossovers in miniDSP youre not doubbling down on crossovers etc.

Experiment with minidsp crossover that suit your AVR rolloff of the speakers (12/24 db/oct etc etc)

 

[veshman]

Thanks again... I'm excited to give this a try when I get home later!

I do have the definitive sub in a corner. The little REL sort of has a corner because it's next to the entertainment console. I'll send some pics later.

I'll follow the suggestions you made regarding crossovers, multiple measurement locations, etc and see if I can get a better baseline reading.

This is very helpful, AND, I'm learning a lot which is fun... even if frustrating at times lol.

Bhavesh

 

[UKSPAWN]

no problem

 

[veshman]

Good Evening from Chicago... well I worked on it for a while and it's definitely a learning experience. It's easy to make little mistakes so I really appreciate you spelling everything out in detail because it's easy to forget to do a step. In fact, I was sitting there importing curves into MiniDSP while it wasn't connected, so of course it wasn't doing anything. Oy vey.

I realized I that I had Audyssey turned on, so I used the MultiEQ app to cut the Audyssey bass management to 0hz, re-did a baseline curve, then followed your house curves.

The first graph, I think I had the target curve around 63, the 2nd at 75 (I think... I may be a little confused now)

I think I'm getting fatigued from audible listening overall so it's getting a little hard to tell when it's better or worse.

But I do think the bass overall sounds nice, but there are certain songs where it seems like the bass is unnaturally more pronounced. I've added a little gain to the definitive sub on output 2 via the miniDSP and that seems to make it sound better.

Can you tell from these graphs if they're any good?

Thanks!

Bhavesh

EDIT: It's actually sound really pretty good now so that feels pretty good. I know the bass is a little heavier and unbalanced at times, but overall pretty good. I'll give it a few days and then compare it to the Audyssey setup without the MiniDSP.

 

[UKSPAWN]

Keep coming back to it. save those config as config1 in the miniDSP, then next time in a few days or weeks come back and do it again and then save as config 2... then you can compare etc.

Have yo done any alignment of the 2 subs using the delays in miniDSP?

play the noise "sub cal" from both subs and use the RTA to see, then change the delays between the 2 subs in MiniDSP and see how that changes the bass response. try to get the most gain where they work best together and not where big dips occur, you will also hear its better too. then use measurment sweeps to get it better once you have general idea with RTA.

Do all this with the main L/R speakers OFF.

 

[veshman]

Hi UKSPAWN, I just wanted to say thank you again.

While I'm sure that there is more fine-tuning that can be done, I think I've really got a great sound coming from my setup now!

The bass is lower in volume but definitely present and definitely tight, and vocals sound so crisp and clean. Listening at low volumes I still feel like I have a full sound all the way into the lows.

I think this system even sounds better now than my other system with all Martin Logan...

Anyway, I hope this is how it's supposed to sound where the bass is present but not as in your face...

I'll do some movies later and see if I still get the rumble.

Bhavesh