3db's Main System located in the basement

[3dbinCanada]

My 2nd UMIK1 arrived yesterday so hopefully tomorrow I'll get to play some more.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I had a chance to run some measurements with the new mic. Will try and post them tomorrow.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I was a busy boy last week emptying 5 gallons of paint on the mainfloor, basement stairwell, and basement. I started a week past Sunday and completed everything by this past Friday. No more looking at scuff marks or patched drywall. My ottomon came in today. I should have ordered black but this is close enough. At least now, the middle seat has a place to rest their feet and I can hide the blankets.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Here are the new REW results..

 

[3dbinCanada]

What you said is all correct.
Added to that is the measurements must be taken with an acoustic timing reference.



The question I intended was IF you could route a signal to one of those speakers ONLY if you wanted to. On a windows machine a HDMI connection and soundcard driver such as ASIO4ALL are needed.



Definitely a process of changing settings and re-measuring can be used to see if a better result can be achieved.
Somewhat recently, REW added added the Alignment Tool feature. Now instead instead multiple measurements taken to find the best result, just the 3 mentioned for this exercise and the alignment tool will calculate and show the rest.
Here's an example:

MiniDSP Sub Setup

Currently have have Audyssey turned off and have changed the distance measurements (laser measure) Since you didn't mention the subs specifically I'll add that even with only 1 sub the actual physical distance setting is not likely to be the correct one. Of course with 3 subs a physical...

www.avnirvana.com

You may or may not find that YPAO has set the delays (distances) and levels optimally.

Taking the same 3 measurements with a different XO may or may not show a XO other than 80Hz to work better (for you).

A journey like this is all up to you of course and if taken you may find you have a preference for something other than the best looking SPL chart and if that's the case go with your ears.

Its a good thing I'm still off on disability as my reading comprehension is still affected 5 months after my wife's passing.

I was able to run Left Main only and Right Main only measurements and these measurements were run with acoustic timing reference selected by default. The measurements are below.



Now for sub only.. The sub was connected via Sub out on the AVR..mains set to small, and Xover set to 200 Hz. Again the measurement was taken with acoustic timing reference selected by default.



In fact all my measurements that I ever posted were taken with acoustic timing reference selected by default. Is this correct or should I run a set of measurements using "no timing measurement"

 

[3dbinCanada]

I decided to run a few more full frequency sweeps with YPAO set to flat and changing the xovers to 40,60,80,90,100,110. Also, I ran the measurements using "no timing measurement" . I still think setting the xover gave me the best result. Again, 3 measurements were taken across the couch for each xover setting,

Xover=40


Xover=60


Xover=80


Xover=90


Xover=100


Xover=110


The last graph is YPAO is off and the Xover is set to 90 Hz.

 

[JStewart]

It’s a little difficult to see on these graphs for me, but does it look to you like theres a trend of the SPL being lower at the XO frequency than that same frequency is on each graph before it and after it? Or put another way, is the SPL tending to dip at each XO setting?

If yes then the distance setting for the sub may not be optimal. If you’d like this can be checked with the following measurements and the REW file posted.

Make sure any DSP processing is off. On the Yamaha I believe this is “Direct” mode.
Place the mic at the MLP which should be equidistant from each main speaker, but may not be.
Set the XO to 80
Measurements must be with a timing reference and the same speaker used as timing reference for each measurement.
20Hz to 400Hz range for each measurement is good.
The mic can’t move between measurements.

Front Left with No Sub
Front Right with No Sub
Sub Only with signal to Front Right/Left channels simultaneously and Not the LFE channel.

If you can’t do the sub measurement with a signal sent to both main channels then choose either one. It will only affect SPL and that can be adjusted to suit after.

 

[3dbinCanada]

It’s a little difficult to see on these graphs for me, but does it look to you like theres a trend of the SPL being lower at the XO frequency than that same frequency is on each graph before it and after it? Or put another way, is the SPL tending to dip at each XO setting?

If yes then the distance setting for the sub may not be optimal. If you’d like this can be checked with the following measurements and the REW file posted.

Make sure any DSP processing is off. On the Yamaha I believe this is “Direct” mode.
Place the mic at the MLP which should be equidistant from each main speaker, but may not be.
Set the XO to 80
Measurements must be with a timing reference and the same speaker used as timing reference for each measurement.
20Hz to 400Hz range for each measurement is good.
The mic can’t move between measurements.

Front Left with No Sub
Front Right with No Sub
Sub Only with signal to Front Right/Left channels simultaneously and Not the LFE channel.

If you can’t do the sub measurement with a signal sent to both main channels then choose either one. It will only affect SPL and that can be adjusted to suit after.

Did you see the graphs on post 39 for the left/right main only? I did have YPAO Flat turned on.

Reposting using 1/6 smoothing at 80 Hz,

 

[3dbinCanada]

I retook measurements across the listener position making sure the head of the mic extended at least a couple of inches higher than the back of the chair. The results look much better....

 

[3dbinCanada]

I received my 2nd Rythmik sub yesterday but I have not connected it to the system yet. Its an LV12-F ... its almost identical to the LV12-R except that the port got moved to the front of the cabinet instead of the rear. The plate amp has changed on the LV12-F and it now includes a parametric equalizer.

LV12-F on the Left; LV12-R on the Right


LV12-R Back Panel


LV12-F Back Panel

 

[3dbinCanada]

While the weather is nice and the daylight hours are long, I will not spend much time on getting the new sub integrated into the system. Thankfully, I did keep my old measurements when I went through this exercise looking for the best location for the current sub.

The new sub location frequency response is this.


Out of the next three locations, I will locate the 2nd sub to the right of the sofa almost opposite corner of the new location.


The other two locations were left of sofa and by the exercise bike.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I got the 2nd sub dialed in I think. Here is the raw response before adding a house curve via the miniDSP. The 2nd sub was first gain matched my ensuring the SPL at 50 Hz was the same for the 2nd sub at the 1st subs location.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

That looks really good.

You mentioned moving the mic up above the back of your chair... are your ears above the back of the chair when you are sitting?

I've heavily... and I mean 4 blanket thickness heavy, covered the back of my recliner. Even made it more comfy, which can be detrimental to listening from time to time... if you know what I mean. But the point being it does not reflect much off the back of the seat any longer. My ears are below the back, and I keep the mic at the level of my ears, as that is what I believe I'm hearing.

 

[3dbinCanada]

The first graph are plots along the width of the couch before EQ via miniDSP.


The second graph are plots along the width of the couch post EQ via miniDSP


I'm going to have play with the EQ a bit more with the miniDSP as I'm not satisfied with the drop in output from PreEQ to PostEQ and the difference between the 3 LPs

 

[JStewart]

I'm going to have play with the EQ a bit more with the miniDSP as I'm not satisfied with the drop in output from PreEQ to PostEQ

This video shows how to combine the subs for maximum output by getting them in phase at the MLP.

Apply EQ in the miniDSP after

and the difference between the 3 LPs

If the seat to seat difference is still more than you'd like after the procedure above then MultiSubOptimizer is a great tool for seat to seat consistency. There's a bit of a learning curve for the program set-up and use. Happy to help if you wish. It can cost some output to get seat to seat consistency, or not, depending.
(Personally the seat to seat consistency looks pretty good to me, though.)

 

[3dbinCanada]

This video shows how to combine the subs for maximum output by getting them in phase at the MLP.

Apply EQ in the miniDSP after



If the seat to seat difference is still more than you'd like after the procedure above then MultiSubOptimizer is a great tool for seat to seat consistency. There's a bit of a learning curve for the program set-up and use. Happy to help if you wish. It can cost some output to get seat to seat consistency, or not, depending.
(Personally the seat to seat consistency looks pretty good to me, though.)

Hi John. How you been doing? That link is what I used to get me there. Its now about wiggling that reference line into the measured response to get the response Im looking for

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Do you have several people sitting on the sofa?

 

[3dbinCanada]

Do you have several people sitting on the sofa?

Now what's that supposed to mean??? I live alone now so the truthful answer is no...BUUUTTTT... Im almost a perfectionist so I have to try it a few more times to see if I can improve it.

 

[JStewart]

Im almost a perfectionist so I have to try it a few more times to see if I can improve it.

I get it. It’s the challenge that makes it fun.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Now what's that supposed to mean??? I live alone now so the truthful answer is no...BUUUTTTT... Im almost a perfectionist so I have to try it a few more times to see if I can improve it.

Just sayin... if you are a loner (like me in my room)... then why are you trying to improve sound where you are not seated? That only serves to mess up your main spot.

Oh wait... now I get it... you roll around on the sofa when listening and watching, so you have to tune each position, lying down, sitting up, leaning one direction or the other... I get it.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Just sayin... if you are a loner (like me in my room)... then why are you trying to improve sound where you are not seated? That only serves to mess up your main spot.

Oh wait... now I get it... you roll around on the sofa when listening and watching, so you have to tune each position, lying down, sitting up, leaning one direction or the other... I get it.

Just sayin... if you are a loner (like me in my room)... then why are you trying to improve sound where you are not seated? That only serves to mess up your main spot.

Oh wait... now I get it... you roll around on the sofa when listening and watching, so you have to tune each position, lying down, sitting up, leaning one direction or the other... I get it.

 

[3dbinCanada]

So I've done more playing but to lazy to measure today. Instead, I'm posting a graph of what MiniDSP thinks it can do for me. I've also attached a screen shot of the settings in REW.

 

[JStewart]

I’ll be curious to know if you prefer the Eq’d or unEq’d version.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I’ll be curious to know if you prefer the Eq’d or unEq’d version.

Once the crappy weather starts and the long days are over, I will do a comparison. I did manage to take actual measurements today across the couch.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I’ll be curious to know if you prefer the Eq’d or unEq’d version.

Hey John!!

I prefer EQ'd .. more even bass response all around.