3db's Main System located in the basement

[3dbinCanada]

I finally found the bass!!!! I read a review on Top Gun Maverick bluray and my bass was hitting as hard as the movie described. This really peaved me off so I went through all my AVR's settings and found the GD culprit. YPAO volume was turned on through all scenes but even worse than that was ADR (Adapative Dynamic Range) control was set. Who the hell turned that on?? I do not recall turning this on ever. I turned it all off and rewatched some of heavy bass scenes and I'm relieved to say that things are now rattling around the room and I feel the slam as much as my main floor system.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I'm thinking of removing the middle speaker and dropping the left and right surrounds more to ear level. I do not have any stands that are 40" tall (height needed just to clear the back of the couch). Should I buy stands or do I just lower the wall brackets. The right speaker is a little close to the entry way so I may move it away from that by a few inches. The reason for having them up that high in the first place was for safety reasons and not to bump into them. I live alone now so safety is no longer a concern within reason *LOL* What are your thoughts?

 

[JStewart]

Anyway to place ‘em on something temporary at the height you want and give them a listen?

I know Dolby says ear height, but when they are close someone will get an earfull while the person on the other side gets blocked sound. IIRC Toole suggested surround tweeters 12“ to 18” above ear height.

Is the middle one a single surround back?

 

[ddude003]

I only have a 7.1 system and have found ear hight or slightly above works out pretty good... And at least 6 feet away to get out of that near field effect...

 

[3dbinCanada]

Anyway to place ‘em on something temporary at the height you want and give them a listen?

I know Dolby says ear height, but when they are close someone will get an earfull while the person on the other side gets blocked sound. IIRC Toole suggested surround tweeters 12“ to 18” above ear height.

Is the middle one a single surround back?

Yes it is

 

[3dbinCanada]

I only have a 7.1 system and have found ear hight or slightly above works out pretty good... And at least 6 feet away to get out of that near field effect...

I dont have the option of 6' away on the left hand side.

 

[JStewart]

If you’d like to experiment, try the surround speakers slightly in front, i.e. 80 degrees, also.
I‘d leave the back middle where it is to keep it as far as possible from the LP.

 

[3dbinCanada]

If you’d like to experiment, try the surround speakers slightly in front, i.e. 80 degrees, also.
I‘d leave the back middle where it is to keep it as far as possible from the LP.

You think there's value in keeping that surround back speaker?

 

[JStewart]

You think there's value in keeping that surround back speaker?

I honestly couldn’t say. Easy enough to turn off/on in the processor to compare.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I lowered the surround left & right speakers today but left the surround back up for now. I will run YPAO tomorrow and rewatch Top Gun Maverick to see how it sounds. Pictures to follow as well. If I like the setup, I will have some wall maintenance and painting to do.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Now that I'm living on my own and not having to worry about people bumping into the surround speakers, I have lowered the left/right surround speakers more to ear height but left the single surround back where is for now. I haven't rerun YPAO yet

 

[ddude003]

I see your problem... Your cat absorber is not in place...

 

[3dbinCanada]

I completed the wall repairs after also moving the surround back channel to align with the center listening position and the front center channel.

 

[ddude003]

Looks pretty nice... How does it sound now?

 

[CHFels]

I agree, looks sweet!
One question pops into my mind when I see real people's setups: does anyone actually have their speakers as far out into the room as audio reviewers claim they do?? My speakers (front) have to be less than a foot away from the wall behind, and one is kind of in a corner too. So Dirac Live is very important for me, to tame the bass.

 

[ddude003]

I imagine it depends on a few variables like room dimensions, speaker design type and manufactures suggested placement as well as precise measurements and adjustments using REW... And of course room usage... Living room verses dedicated Music and/or Home Theater room...

Have a look at the AV Showcase here at AV NIRVANA and see for yourself...

 

[JStewart]

I agree, looks sweet!
One question pops into my mind when I see real people's setups: does anyone actually have their speakers as far out into the room as audio reviewers claim they do?? My speakers (front) have to be less than a foot away from the wall behind, and one is kind of in a corner too. So Dirac Live is very important for me, to tame the bass.

Takes a fairly big room to get them far enough away to be good. That would be about 8ft. Of course you don’t want to sit up against a wall either and then you have to sit at least 6 ft away for most designs, 8 to 10 might be better. So a little math says with an 8ft equilateral triangle one would be 9ft from the speaker plane. And then we can’t sit the same distance from the back wall as the speakers are from the front, because that would cause cancellation at the same frequency, so let’s sit 10ft from the back wall.
And there you have it. A 27ft long room will accommodate an audiophile speaker set up.
Fortunately there are other ways to get really good or equal results, such as high quality in-wall speakers, of which there are more all the time, with multiple subwoofers. Apply a bit of DSP and bingo, audiophile sound in a small space.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Takes a fairly big room to get them far enough away to be good. That would be about 8ft. Of course you don’t want to sit up against a wall either and then you have to sit at least 6 ft away for most designs, 8 to 10 might be better. So a little math says with an 8ft equilateral triangle one would be 9ft from the speaker plane. And then we can’t sit the same distance from the back wall as the speakers are from the front, because that would cause cancellation at the same frequency, so let’s sit 10ft from the back wall.
And there you have it. A 27ft long room will accommodate an audiophile speaker set up.
Fortunately there are other ways to get really good or equal results, such as high quality in-wall speakers, of which there are more all the time, with multiple subwoofers. Apply a bit of DSP and bingo, audiophile sound in a small space.

I dont have much more room to spread the speakers further apart. They are 76" apart and about 90" away from the CLP. Sounds great for both 2 channel and HT applications

 

[JStewart]

Any opinion yet on how it sounds after lowering the surrounds?

 

[JStewart]

They are 76" apart and about 90" away from the CLP.

As per Dolby as I’m guessing you knew.
Hey, what’s with the inches thing? I thought you are in Canada?

 

[3dbinCanada]

Any opinion yet on how it sounds after lowering the surrounds?

I noticed several differences. The directional cues from the surrounds including the back are more directional and less diffuse in nature. I also notice a bigger contribution from the atmos speakers as well when playing an atmos sound track.

As per Dolby as I’m guessing you knew.
Hey, what’s with the inches thing? I thought you are in Canada?

I'm not following you on the as per Dolby line.

I grew up in a time that I already knew the American standards of measure before the metric system was put in place. I'm fluent in both systems

 

[JStewart]

I'm not following you on the as per Dolby line.

I dont have much more room to spread the speakers further apart. They are 76" apart and about 90" away from the CLP

That worked out to 26-27 degrees angle for the fronts (if I can remember correctly from this morning!). This Is from Dolby.com

I noticed several differences. The directional cues from the surrounds including the back are more directional and less diffuse in nature. I also notice a bigger contribution from the atmos speakers as well when playing an atmos sound track.

That all makes sense. Guess I was wondering about your preference. Happy you did it? Liked it better before? Or just different with no strong preference, one way or the other?

 

[3dbinCanada]

That worked out to 26-27 degrees angle for the fronts (if I can remember correctly from this morning!). This Is from Dolby.com

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That all makes sense. Guess I was wondering about your preference. Happy you did it? Liked it better before? Or just different with no strong preference, one way or the other?

I'm happy I did it. I do like it better. I'm still debating whether or not to take down that surround back channel as I do notice its contribution in 7.1 movies but wonder how much it still interfers with ATMOS.

 

[3dbinCanada]

I tackled this room again a couple of days ago with my PC and UMIK1 mic. The reason for the tackle is that I could not get a smooth integration with my mains and subs when running my mains set to large with the current sub locations. I tackled this previously in the last week of October and had to run a cluge to get something that resembled a good response. I knew this was not the answer so I decided to relocate one of my subs, sub 2 in the room. Sub 1 remained in its location as it really gave an even bass response from 20 up to 80 Hz before it dipped. I moved sub 2 from the right side of the couch as shown here

to the left side of the left speaker

Here are the following sub responses individually and combined before REW EQ curves were applied.

The next plot shows before and after REW of the combined sub response

I integrated the subs with the main speakers by tweeking the sub distance in the AVR's menu to provide me with the best response.

Pattern-1 is what I use to listen to music. The mains are run as large with the subs using the Xtra Bass facility on the AVR. The graph below shows differences between Through (no PEQ) but Mains + sub (Xtra Bass) and Pure DIrect (no PEQ) where the subs are not being used.

Pattern-2 is what I use to watch movies. Mains are set to small and Xtra Bass is turned off. The graph below shows the difference in response with PEQ set to Flat verses PEQ set to Through

It doesn't surprise me that the sub distances would vary between Pattern-1 and Pattern-2 The sub distances are 22.2 ft and 12.2 ft for Pattern-1 and Pattern-2 respectively.

I tweeked the sub level via the AVR for Pattern-2 (movie mode) . I like my subs running a little hot for movies.

 

[JStewart]

Lookin good there. Seems moving that sub was worth the effort.