Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 Owners Thread

[dlaloum]

How much better is having DLBC? Is DLBC like having Audyssey XT32?

Dirac Live is on a par (I think better) with Audyssey XT32 (which comes with Audyssey's SubEQ functionality)

Dirac Live Bass Control - DLBC is the next step up for bass - it does its stuff with subs, and mostly multi-subs - it has a huge following and many people swear by it. - it is the next step up from Dirac Live. Audyssey has no equivalent

Dirac Live - Active Room Treatment (ART) - is the next step beyond that - where active cancellation of specific sounds/frequencies from specific speakers is used to correct the room - it is a complete paradigm shift.
Toss out all your assumptions about optimal speaker types and combinations.

ART will be available to all manufacturers who want to integrate it into their AVR's starting in October.

There is no word yet from Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra as to which models will support ART.

 

[Asere]

I returned a glitchy RZ50 with Dirac turned ON and ordered the LX505. Comes in tomorrow. Hopefully I can finally get a feel for Dirac.

 

[sxl213]

Your opinion - anyone else using Direct Pure?
I picked up my 505 about 4 weeks ago. I have struggled with the tone on this AVR. Today I recalibrated the room, 1st using MCACC - mistake. MCACC decided that my speakers where of various sizes and I noticed not much was coming from my center channel - KEF Q250c. So, I recalibrated using DIRAC. The tone was still harsh/bright but I began customizing the various curves. I focused on my front (KEF Q350) and center frequencies. I boost the low end by about 8 db from 20hz to 120hz and dropped the low mids by 8 db. I also curtained off the front and center channels at 500hz. This was an improvement but the sound varies between sources and I am still not completely happy. On average I find Direct Pure to be the most pleasing. So, I ask, is anyone else using Direct pure? I will likely continue to tweak the curves with DIRAC.

 

[sxl213]

Great Price. But, I struggle to find a decent tone out of it.

 

[Todd Anderson]

You sound like a candidate for limiting the range of correction to under 500Hz. If room correction alters the top end, your ears will be really sensitive to it.

 

[sxl213]

You sound like a candidate for limiting the range of correction to under 500Hz. If room correction alters the top end, your ears will be really sensitive to it.

Yes, I 've been doing just that - a curtain. This morning I further reduced the curtain to all curves below 250hz - seems to be an improvement. I believe good speakers are key.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I totally agree with you... that and the status of your physical room. Speaker designers will tell you to stay away from altering the innate performance of a speaker, though controlling the low end is, I believe, essential.

Are you noticing a difference between LFE with MCACC and Dirac?

 

[sxl213]

I totally agree with you... that and the status of your physical room. Speaker designers will tell you to stay away from altering the innate performance of a speaker, though controlling the low end is, I believe, essential.

Are you noticing a difference between LFE with MCACC and Dirac?

MCACC was a total fail IMO. The MCACC calibration gave speaker sizes that did not make sense to me. Large center, small fronts, I can't recall them all. As you likely know, bookshelf speakers, no matter how big, should be classed as small to allow the low end frequencies to be correctly routed to the sub. I am using an SVS SB200 pro sub. It can handle down to 19hz. So as I said. MCACC was a fail.
DIRAC live was a bit of a learning curve for me. But patience seems to be paying off. DIRAC live allows for a lot of control which is great.
My first attempts resulted in a lot of bright harsh tones. I have noticed that DIRAC can have brightness issues. Every time I'd come across info on DIRAC that made sense, I'd try it out. Often a bit of info can be a dangerous thing. Early on I kept the curtain at 500hz but the sound was still bright. I also read to boost the bottom end a few db to compensate. I did that (7db) but it was still harsh. I tried cutting the low mids a few db. Still harsh.
I came close to taking the receiver back but my latest attempt proved promising. I tried the DIRECT PURE listening mode last night and it was pretty close to my liking.
This morning, I returned all the curves to the original DIRAC recommendation but gave the front and center channels a 3db boost.at from 20hz up to 100hz.. I also moved the curtain down to 250hz.
Oddly now the DIRECT PURE and DIRAC sound very close. But I did notice a bit of low end shadowing on dialogue using DIRECT Pure. I am hoping the adjustments to the DIRAC have corrected that.
Bottom line is that between the two listening modes DIRAC PURE and DIRAC live, I think I am happy with the Pioneer elite 505. Particularly since the DIRECT PURE is acceptable and there there is always possible improvements using DIRAC as I get to know it better.

 

[sxl213]

What is the watts per channel all channels driven?
The 505 boasts 120 watts 2 channels driven.
I am driving all 9 channels and the wattage/channel is likely much less than 120.
I am wonder if I'd benefit using a multi channel power amp, at least for the front soundstage LCR?

 

[Alexandru2705]

Hi! Sorry if I post this question here on LX505 thread, but I didnt find a clear answer elsewhere.

I just bought a Pioneer LX305 AVR and also a UMIK 1 microphone to use with Dirac Live calibration - hoping to get better results than if using the Pioneer LX305 supplied mic and the Dirac Live app. But it seems that I cant use the independent UMIK 1 mic for the calibration of Pioneer LX305 with Dirac Life - there is no mentioning of such possibility on Pioneer 305 manual. Does this mean that I have to return the UMIK 1, as I can only use the Pioneer supplied mic and their app to calibrate 5.0 speakers with Dirac Live?

I installed Dirac Live on my Windows laptop, but on the list of supported devices (which carry a license for Dirac Live) there is only one Pioneer AVR, which is not 305.
Thank you.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hi there - I'm fairly sure you can use your PC to run Dirac Live on your laptop.

Are you sure that your LX305 and PC are on the same exact network?

 

[Alexandru2705]

Indeed, maybe this is the reason, - as I tried to connect the Pioneer 305 to network wifi, but after writing the password three times it failed to connect. Then I connected it by cable and it was ok and I reached the step for calibration. But its referring only to MCACC or Dirac Live using the supplied mic and (probably) the mobile app. I will try again to use the WIFI network, but what to do if it doesnt work?

I mean, should I simply connect the UMIK1 to the laptop and then try to see if its somehow connects to Dirac Live app installed on it and then use it to calibrate the 5.0 speakers - independent of the Pioneer LX305?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Well, unfortunately, you're going to need to make it work! The product and the laptop running Dirac need to be on the same network.

Not sure about your last question - but, you won't be able to run any Dirac calibration on the laptop without the software connecting to a registered device (your LX305)

 

[Alexandru2705]

Ok, but on Pioneer site I dont see where I can register my purchased AVR.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Does this work?

Pioneer Home Audio | Product Registration

Register your Pioneer product here. Start Now!

pioneerhomeusa.com

 

[Alexandru2705]

in the mean time I managed to connect the Pioneer 305 on wifi network. So I suppose now I should start the Dirac Live calibration from the laptop/Windows, and it will detect it automatically?

Oh, ok, thank you for that link, will go there now to register.

Later: on that link all I get is a generic page from the Pioneer site for AVR - there is no indication how to register. Maybe that is for Pioneer USA? I am located in Romania.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Ahh... yes, that's for a site in USA. I'm not sure of the site for your region. Perhaps google it, or reach out to your retailer.

For Dirac, make sure your AVR is powered on and connected to your network, then open Dirac on your laptop (making sure it too is on your network)... connect your UMIK-1 microphone. Upload the calibration for your Umik-1 microphone (you can download your microphone's unique calibration file by entering the microphone's SN# on this page: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1.

Then, you're off and running!

 

[Alexandru2705]

Looks like I downloaded&installed Dirac Live Processor for Windows, instead of Dirac Live - thats why I went into those issues with being asked for licence and not finding Pioneer 305 on their list....Now installed Dirac Live finally on my laptop and will start tomorrow the procedure (now it's too late here and as I live in a block of flats I better not irritate my neighbours with calibrating sounds

Thank you, will check that link. I'll let you know tomorrow about the results.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Oh... interesting. Don't feel bad, I think that's a common error to make.

Rest up and get after it tomorrow! Look forward to reading about how you made out.

 

[Asere]

Who does a better job with the subs MCACC PRO or plain DIRAC for the receivers that are not capable of DLBM and DLBC?

 

[Todd Anderson]

@Sonnie Parker I bet you’ve measured Baseline DL

 

[Sonnie Parker]

@Sonnie Parker I bet you’ve measured Baseline DL

Indeed, I have. It's okay if you don't have subs, but it's not the best with subs because it's difficult to time-align the subs with the main speakers. If you can get them time-aligned, it will work fine.

If you have subs, it will sweep the subs below the crossover frequency you have set in Dirac Live, and then sweep the mains above the crossover point.

BM and BC provide time alignment, as they sweep the subs separately from the main speakers.

If you only have left and right front speakers... DL is fine. If you have subs and can't get them perfectly time-aligned, I'd highly recommend DLBM or DLBC.

I have never tried MCACC of any kind, so unfortunately, I cannot comment on its performance.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Sounds like you're better off going with a miniDSP for bass control if your AVR is DL only and you're integrating subs into an arrangement.

 

[Alexandru2705]

Todd Anderson: Yesterday I only managed to make one measurement with Dirac Live for Pioneer lx305 as three others returned error message for noise in the room. Todat I tried again 3 times, all errors for same reason. Looks like its impossible in a block of flats to try Dirac calibration, at least with UMIK-1, as you can't stop the slightest noise around (inside the room/apt it was quiet).

Did I do something wrong? I see there is a graphic before starting the measurement which includes the microphone setting, maybe I should have moved that up or downward - I am not into these though, and I found no mentioning of it in Dirac Live help file (which is very scarce anyway).
There were also issues with communication between the laptop and the Pioneer 305 and I got an error message for this - although I disabled Avast. Only today I disabled Windows Defender firewall too (but anyhow of no use, as got the error message for noise detected).

Also, I did export the 3 filters Dirac gave for that sole successful measurement, but although after each one there was the message that filter was successfully exported to Pioneer 305, I didnt find any of them on Pioneer settings menu. So I dont know really if filters were applied or not following that single calibration.

I am contemplating returning the Umik-1, as too sensitive a mic, at least for the environment in a block of flats apt, so I will make use only of the Pioneer provided mic and app for Dirac Live (or maybe even try MCACC).

What do you think? It's true that I might first try to look elsewhere for indications on how to proceed with Dirac Live calibration and especially if I can set lower the sensibility of the microphone - and if this affects the overall result of the calibration.

Later: only now I found that I should have followed the recommendations from here (I did almost nothing of these, unaware of): https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/211-umik-1-dirac and also: https://docs.minidsp.com/product-manuals/ddrc-24/dirac-live/configure-dirac-live.html

Obviously I also forgot to download the UMIK-1 file from the link you provided. So I will start all over again, not return the mic, for now... Fingers crossed.

Later edit: I did all the necessary changes, repeated the procedure but still got the message with too much environmental noise (it was reasonably silent in and out the apt). At this point I'm really contemplating returning the UMIK-1.

 

[JStewart]

If you have subs, it will sweep the subs below the crossover frequency you have set in Dirac Live, and then sweep the mains above the crossover point.

How quickly we can forget.
Dirac measures all speakers full range. AVR XOs are bypassed during the measuring process. The measurement process is the same for all Dirac versions.

Regular Dirac doesn’t align subs to each other so it won’t work properly for multiple subs connected to different AVR outputs. I did always align a single sub or group of subs (already aligned using a MiniDSP) to the mains properly, in phase, for me. Checking after a Dirac calibration using REW and it’s alignment tool, isn’t going to be a bad idea though.

@Alexandru2705 , follow this guide to perform your Dirac measurements.

Configure microphone and setting speaker levels for measurements in Dirac Live v2 & v3