DSP: EQ’ing Full Range or Not – Testing the Ears

[Sonnie Parker]

that's why I personaly think the best "reference level" for your system is calibrated per genre and using ears only

Exactly... which is why you determine the amount of shelf filter you need to get the bass appropriate for your ears at the level you listen to.

You may have several presets like I do with different amounts of bass levels for different songs and different volumes.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

we can say: up to 1000Hz our inroom meassurements show what we hear. obove that we have to start observing the direct sound

Not necessarily... it all depends on the room and the speakers in use. If you have a wide dispersion speaker that is closer to untreated walls, you will like hear more reflections than you will with a narrow dispersion speaker with treated walls.

 

[ddude003]

I beg to differ. Differences in sound reproduction (amp, speaker, room acoustics) should not become part of the art. It creates two issues:
1. You can never know what the artist wanted you to hear because you don't know and therefore can't recreate the acoustical environment in which he made his artistic decisions.
2. You can never easily adjust for your personal preference. One recording might need different adjustments than the other because it was created in a different acoustical environment. Again you don't know what to adjust for. The endless tweaking for "best sound quality" begins...

In my mind better reproduction standards would let you appreciate the art even more. Right now it just creates confusion and some of the art is even lost.

To the best of my knowledge no two live performance venues or recording studios are the same or have the same sound production and/or reproduction equipment... Even in most live venues and recording studios there are changes in equipment and placement of equipment on as needed basis (read often with each performance and/or project)... Good luck in keeping it all "standard"... And do you dummy it all down to a common denominator or raise the bar in all instances to some "standard"? Can everyone have a Neve 88RS with full Flying Faders Mix Recall?... Likewise reproduction in ones home living room or theatre... Your just not going to get your living room or home theatre to sound like the The Fillmore, Hollywood Bowl, Electric Lady Studios or the Village Recorder... To me the production chain from the performer(s) to the "mastering" is the art... Let the standard(s) come into play in the duplication and distribution format(s) chain...

 

[markus]

To the best of my knowledge no two live performance venues or recording studios are the same or have the same sound production and/or reproduction equipment... Even in most live venues and recording studios there are changes in equipment and placement of equipment on as needed basis (read often with each performance and/or project)... Good luck in keeping it all "standard"... And do you dummy it all down to a common denominator or raise the bar in all instances to some "standard"? Can everyone have a Neve 88RS with full Flying Faders Mix Recall?... Likewise reproduction in ones home living room or theatre... Your just not going to get your living room or home theatre to sound like the The Fillmore, Hollywood Bowl, Electric Lady Studios or the Village Recorder... To me the production chain from the performer(s) to the "mastering" is the art... Let the standard(s) come into play in the duplication and distribution format(s) chain...

As we're off-topic just a link worth following: http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

 

[ddude003]

Exactly... which is why you determine the amount of shelf filter you need to get the bass appropriate for your ears at the level you listen to.

You may have several presets like I do with different amounts of bass levels for different songs and different volumes.

Pretty easy to have several presets with Roon... Been doing this ever since I started using Roon... And Reverberate plugin within Audirvana before that...

 

[JStewart]

What am I missing here? Isn’t everyone kind of saying the same thing?
Circle of Confusion is real? No standards for playback equipment (speakers/rooms) = never hearing what anyone in the chain intended?
We can attempt to minimize the various distortions, but adjusting the tonal balance is all preference, right?

 

[ddude003]

In my experience there is no Circle of Confusion from the point of view of the artists, performer(s), recording, mixing and mastering engineers, producers, musicians, songwriters, composers, arrangers, etc... Everyone sounds different... Everyone does things different and thats OK... Everyone has different gear and thats OK... Those are the things that make the end product unique... I think the confusion is that some folks think this creation and production chain should be the same or sound the same... Why?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Pretty easy to have several presets with Roon... Been doing this ever since I started using Roon... And Reverberate plugin within Audirvana before that...

Yep... when using Convolver I do that. However, it's easier for me when using Dirac to set it up on the miniDSP SHD. I have 4 presets there with Dirac on each one, and 10 bands of PEQ or Shelf filters to boot if needed. I'm constantly experimenting with EQ, changing targets, etc... and it really ALL sounds good to me for the most part.

 

[markus]

In my experience there is no Circle of Confusion from the point of view of the artists, performer(s), recording, mixing and mastering engineers, producers, musicians, songwriters, composers, arrangers, etc... Everyone sounds different... Everyone does things different and thats OK... Everyone has different gear and thats OK... Those are the things that make the end product unique... I think the confusion is that some folks think this creation and production chain should be the same or sound the same... Why?

You have to differentiate between creation and reproduction. In creation anything is possible but when you now reproduce the art with reproduction devices in a reproduction environment that is different from the one in creation then you're ultimately NOT hearing what the artist intended you to hear. Reproduction should be a sonically transparent process and not change the art in unpredictable ways. I'd like to hear the original. Then I still can decide if it's good or bad or if I need to tweak it in a way so it suits my preference.

 

[ddude003]

In the content creation process there is reproduction... Do the creators advertise to the consumer what the creation and reproduction equipment and tools are? If you knew could you duplicate these in your home environment? I doubt you could keep up with most venue or studio production/reproduction chains... Maybe you could for studio A but what about the rest? Heck, some studios have multiple "rooms", each with its own gear and even more gear on hand to pick and choose from depending on the artist(s) taste... That being said, you never really know what the artist(s) wanted you to hear... As a consumer of content you will have to find something that sounds good to you, in your home space and tune it to suit your budget and ears... BTY, in my opinion, the most unpredictable thing in your home reproduction environment is your ears/brain then the room...

 

[markus]

In the content creation process there is reproduction... Do the creators advertise to the consumer what the creation and reproduction equipment and tools are? If you knew could you duplicate these in your home environment? I doubt you could keep up with most venue or studio production/reproduction chains... Maybe you could for studio A but what about the rest? Heck, some studios have multiple "rooms", each with its own gear and even more gear on hand to pick and choose from depending on the artist(s) taste... That being said, you never really know what the artist(s) wanted you to hear... As a consumer of content you will have to find something that sounds good to you, in your home space and tune it to suit your budget and ears... BTY, in my opinion, the most unpredictable thing in your home reproduction environment is your ears/brain then the room...

Yes, "In the content creation process there is reproduction" involved but it's just a technical necessity and it's exactly the part that needs standardization. There are official standards and recommendations, e.g. this and that. They are just not as good as they would need to be. Again, standardization of audio monitoring does NOT limit anybody from using whatever gear they want for creating a recording.
In other words, a reproduction device is necessary to be able to listen to stereo and multichannel recordings. It's not like going to a museum and looking at a painting. In audio an "apparatus" is needed to be able to "look" at the art. If the behavior of the apparatus varies in unpredictable ways you're not looking at the art as intended by the artist. In fact it limits the art itself.