V5.20.14 early access build

[JoinUs]

Thanks, I have fixed that for the next build.


In 5.20.14 the IR presets are accessed through the IR windows dialog which has "Show presets" and "Save settings as preset" buttons.

Also, Similar to the type of EQ being reset, the target type seems to be reset. I always leave it as none. But the default house curve seems to be applied every time.

 

[John Mulcahy]

the default house curve seems to be applied every time

That's how the house curve works, it is always added. If you want a per-measurement adjustment the room curve options can be used.

 

[JoinUs]

That's how the house curve works, it is always added. If you want a per-measurement adjustment the room curve options can be used.

Umm.. . I don't remember the exact version, but it's been like that since a certain point. When I set it to "None", the target came out in a straight line. Even if refresh the REW

 

[John Mulcahy]

Sorry, I don't understand your comment. Been like what?

 

[JoinUs]

Sorry, I don't understand your comment. Been like what?

Oh Sorry I mean, "None" is not the point.
If uncheck "Room Curve" (Which is for LF/HF rise), It should be off.
But in certain circumstances (not sure) That turns on again. Sometimes restart REW, sometimes you measure it, sometimes you create Vector Average.
It's not a big bug, of course. It's small.

 

[John Mulcahy]

I haven't seen any indication of a bug with the room curve setting. It is a per-measurement setting with the default state for new measurements set in the Equaliser preferences. Changing the setting for an individual measurement has no effect on other measurements. It is separate from the house curve file, which has a global effect. The house curve selection used to be in Preferences but was moved to the target settings panel.

 

[John Mulcahy]

Builds updated today with these changes:

• Changed: Target settings room curve slopes can be up to +/-12 dB (previously +/-6 dB)
• Fixed: Vector averages used the Generic equaliser, it now uses the same equaliser and target settings as the first measurement being averaged
• Fixed: Making repeated measurements on macOS could stop while "waiting for timing reference" but the sweep would not play
• Fixed: Cancelling a measurement could result in some measurement processing still happening
• Fixed: Mouse wheel axis control did not work on the filter adjust graph

 

[JoinUs]

View attachment 61566

Is it possible to add the ability to simultaneously check left and right impulses while playing certain sounds in real time?
Among the programs I know, this is possible with the captured accurate program and smart.
It's a very useful feature for people who like to fine-align the microphone to the center of the left and right before measuring.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this. RTA function to observe real-time L,R impulse peaks....

 

[John Mulcahy]

I have an idea for a tool to help with alignment and a few other things, but it will be some way off (months, not days).

 

[JoinUs]

I have an idea for a tool to help with alignment and a few other things, but it will be some way off (months, not days).

Very Good. It's worth waiting years with patience.

 

[serko70]

I'd like to hear your opinion on this. RTA function to observe real-time L,R impulse peaks....

I know John's initial thoughts on this: Accurately centering the mic has no other meaningful use than avoiding comb filtering when measuring both speakers together! But you somehow managed to trigger some ideas in his mind so well done!

 

[serko70]

In the meantime, I recently proved myself that an analog calibration microphone along with a dual input/output audio interface and all necessary cabling (including the loopback cable) can be bought for cheaper than an Umik-1:



Total cost including shipment was €100.60

I wanted to see if there would be any improvement in time alignment or phase response of measurements despite all the clock adjustment with acoustic reference trickery in REW to overcome clock deviations inherent to USB mics. I am still experimenting but my first thoughts are that the intial analog setup is orders of magnitude harder to get right compared to an USB mic. But once done, every measurement of every speaker will have accurate phase response and no additional alignment is necessary. After using REW's alignment tools, Umik's phase response almost fully matches that of the analog mic but I believe the analog measurements have slightly more accurate low bass phase response. For instance, I found out that the best box port phase correction required for my speakers were a "vented standard Q" linearization at the port frequency rather than "vented low Q" I had been ending up with Umik-2 measurements all this time. In measurements of frequency response, Umik is more consistent and more accurate but this is probably because I bought the cheapest possible analog calibration mic from Behringer and besides I am using an Umik-2.

Just wanted to share this on the topic of alignment. Looking forward to John's new idea!

 

[serko70]

Dear John,


Does REW ignore mic calibration phase data even if it exists?

I don't know of any measurement mic that comes with a calibration data that includes phase correction but I created a dummy cal file to test and the results don't seem to be correctly applying the expected phase adjustment to the measurements.

I found a company (ISEMcon) which at least measures phase deviations of their mics but their calibration files don't include phase info either:

Even this $400 mic has around 20 degrees of shifts in the low bass and similar shifts in the HF. Umik mics have similar phase deviations and that's probably the reason they never get phase response right below 100Hz and over 2kHz.

What do you think?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Phase corrections are applied if they are in the cal file. That phase plot looks a bit suspicious since there are variations through the 100 Hz to 1 kHz range that don't appear to have corresponding amplitude variations. You'd probably get reasonable phase data from minimum phase conversion of the cal data, applying a suitable LF tail.

 

[serko70]

I found an actual cal file with phase correction for Dayton UMM-6 and still can't be sure if phase calibration is being applied correctly. Mdat attached.

 

[serko70]

Phase corrections are applied if they are in the cal file. That phase plot looks a bit suspicious since there are variations through the 100 Hz to 1 kHz range that don't appear to have corresponding amplitude variations. You'd probably get reasonable phase data from minimum phase conversion of the cal data, applying a suitable LF tail.

That's very useful advice, thanks.

 

[John Mulcahy]

 

[serko70]

View attachment 61986

Great thanks. I did the opposite by multiplying the calibration file itself with the measurement taken with no calibration file and compare it with Lphase

 

[John Mulcahy]

Builds updated today with these changes:

• Added: All SPL has two new averaging options, RMS + phase and dB + phase, which augment an RMS or dB average with phase data from a vector average
• Added: All SPL has a "Remove IR delays" button to remove the estimated IR delay from all selected measurements which have an IR
• Added: The IR navigator view shows the IR window
• Changed: Improved phase smoothing
• Changed: Improved delay estimation
• Changed: On the RTA distortion panel show when the fundamental level has come from the manual fundamental option
• Changed: If a mic cal file is being used the filename will be shown in the title of the RTA window
• Changed: If a virtual balanced input is being used show the input being subtracted in the title of the RTA window
• Fixed: WASAPI exclusive mode would produce no sound with some graphics card/AVR combinations on 7.1 systems

Note that the impulse responses of RMS + phase and dB + base averages are non-physical and will have acausal content (the response starts before t=0) so need larger left windows than usual. Before using those or vector average the responses to be averaged should be aligned, Cross corr align works well for that to align all the responses to the first.

 

[Lowclock]

Getting array index out of bounds exceptions if I try to do any trace arithmetic with an upper limit greater than about 17k on some measurements, such as A/B or 1/A.

 

[John Mulcahy]

Can you attach a screen shot of the trace arithmetic settings you are using when you get the error on that measurement? Please also use the "Generate diagnostic file" option in the Help menu and attach the zip file that produces.

 

[John Mulcahy]

I have been able to reproduce that now and fixed it for the next build.

 

[John Mulcahy]

Builds updated (ea62):

• Fixed: Array index out of bounds when using trace arithmetic operations with an upper frequency limit

 

[Breeman]

Builds updated today with these changes:

• Added: All SPL has two new averaging options, RMS + phase and dB + phase, which augment an RMS or dB average with phase data from a vector average
• Added: All SPL has a "Remove IR delays" button to remove the estimated IR delay from all selected measurements which have an IR
• Added: The IR navigator view shows the IR window
• Changed: Improved phase smoothing
• Changed: Improved delay estimation
• Changed: On the RTA distortion panel show when the fundamental level has come from the manual fundamental option
• Changed: If a mic cal file is being used the filename will be shown in the title of the RTA window
• Changed: If a virtual balanced input is being used show the input being subtracted in the title of the RTA window
• Fixed: WASAPI exclusive mode would produce no sound with some graphics card/AVR combinations on 7.1 systems

Note that the impulse responses of RMS + phase and dB + base averages are non-physical and will have acausal content (the response starts before t=0) so need larger left windows than usual. Before using those or vector average the responses to be averaged should be aligned, Cross corr align works well for that to align all the responses to the first.

The RMS + phase feature is great. Thank you

 

[serko70]

The RMS + phase feature is great. Thank you

dB average + phase is the real gem